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Balance tires

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Gil View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 12:43am
I balanced my tires today with a balancing machine as old as my jeep.I found it at a yard sale about 20 years ago,the make off the machine is Bulls Eye . I don't know much about It , I know it's old ,I would love to know more about it. It works with gravity, once the tire stops rotating I mark the bottom of the tire at 6 o'clock .Then I turn it at 9 o'clock and I use my gauge with a weight that I slide toward 3 o'clock to tell me how much weight to use.Then I use the other gauge to tell me where to put the weight. I also put weights on the inside of the rim opposite to the outside one.Once the tire is balanced I remove the gauges and check the tire balance, I rotate the tire at different location and if the tire doesn't move at different location the tire is balance.

Edited by Gil - 30 Mar. 2017 at 2:07am
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smfulle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 1:23am
I've never seen one of those before, but I love it.
Old school tech is cool and it works.
Thanks for sharing.
Stan
48 CJ2A (Grampa's Jeep)
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Mark W. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 5:48am
I worked real service stations in the 70's a couple that had been around since the late 1920's and I never saw a tire balancer like that. I did how ever use a Bubble balancer hundreds and hundreds of times.
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
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Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
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Gil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 12:26pm
I can't find any information on the Internet about the balancing machine.There is no Pat number on the machine .It says Pats pending on the gauge for where to put the weight on the rim.
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jeeper50 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 2:49pm
FYI- long inner tube stems can get ripped/torn out while trial riding...   love that old balancer setup!!

Belleview ol skool winch soon.
'48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers

Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 2:59pm
I posted photos of this machine on G503 but can't find them.
They are very cool!  1930-1940.

I did notice you have a weight at 12:00 and 9:00.

Remove the weight at 9:00 and slide the 12:00 weight an inch counter clockwise.
Same effect.

Where did you find the 7:00-16 Goodyears?
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otto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 3:00pm
I do the same thing with motorcycle tires on a stand. Seems to work well, much smoother than no balancing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Joe Friday Joe Friday wrote:


I did notice you have a weight at 12:00 and 9:00.

Remove the weight at 9:00 and slide the 12:00 weight an inch counter clockwise.
Same effect.


You're always teaching me stuff.
Back in the 70's when I worked ar Cliff's Chevron after school, I learned to balance tires from Cliff on the bubble balancer.
Cliff always told us to spread the weight around, so we would take four weights of the same size and put two of them 1/3 of the way around the tire from the heavy spot, and two another third around the tire, adjusting weight and location until centered. We'd then install two of the weights on the back side of the tire, one each in the two spots. Then put the tire back on the balancer and make sure the front weights were still doing the job, adjust slightly and pound those two home.
Was that overkill, cuz that's how I do it on my own bubble balancer?
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 4:24pm
I was describing a shortcut trying to avoid going thru the vector math...

Maybe we should share this conversation for a fireside chat at Mikes place?

If not, think about this... Static balance is actually measured in inch*ounces, not ounces.

So if you put two 1 ounce weights, side by side on a 15" wheel, that's 2 ounces x7.25" to the center of the weight, so it's 14.5 inch*ounces of balance correction. If you slide the weights apart, draw a straight line from one weight to the other, and the length of a perpendicular line drawn from the center of that line to the center of the wheel is your new moment arm.

Yeah, I know, you want pictures.  I'll try to get some this week.


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Gil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 5:02pm
I been using that balancing machine for over 15 + years with no problem what so ever.Over the years I balance tires for my Jeep Cherokee,VW,Honda,Mazda, etc....with no vabration what so ever even at high speed . I just go by the gauge and put the weight on the inside and outside where the gauge indicate to put the weight.And the Goodyear tires I found them on a site call kijiji.ca it's like craigslist.The 4 tires where already install on those rims with 2 of those valve stems . I had bought those tires and rims about 3 years before I found the jeep.It was a deal to good to let go at $200 for all 4.It's the same price I paid for my cj2a.     

Giles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 5:14pm
As soon as you said "vector math" my brain went numb.
Your word picture was pretty good, a T with the weights being the ends of the top and the wheel center is the end of the vertical. I asume there is a logic leap in there that I missed.

If I remember right, we had to have more weight spread out to center the bubble, than one big weight oposite the heavy spot.

My question is, does more weight spread around the tire make it a smoother ride than one gob of weight opposite the heavy spot?
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 8:35pm
Probably a bunch of us had gas station experiences when we were younger.  I did too.  My boss taught me to use the minimum amount of added weight... we would not want to add weights to counteract an imbalance caused by other weights... a no-brainer I suppose.
 
Are two small weights better than one big one?  A "yes" argument might claim that if one weight falls off, then the wheel would still have a partial balance that would presumably be better than no balance at all.  Plus, the weights could be positioned opposite each other (one on inside edge and one on the outside edge).
Alan Johnson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar. 2017 at 11:12pm
You're scaring me Alan.

That is what I tell my customers.

If you need more than 1.5 ounces, make the total up of two weights. That way the load per clip is less, and if the clip fails and the weight falls off, the residual imbalance will be lower. (Dynamic balance example).

If doing a static balance, split the total weight in half and put half on the front of the rim and half on the back so you don't create a dynamic couple.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2017 at 1:20am

Oxygen-starved minds think alike! 

That is a neat balancer!  I'm jealous, dangit.
Alan Johnson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2017 at 2:00am
Interesting no one has mentioned rotating the tire on the wheel to see if a better position can be found. When I was street racing and tearing around the "GUT" min my youth I also worked at service stations while attending Portland Community College for Auto Tech. We would always try at least three or four different positions to find what required the least amount of weight to balance a combo. I remember one night mounting up maybe 8 different C78-14 Cushionaires to my front 14 x 6 wheels looking for the best combo. Made a difference when you were doing 100mph+ on the street on little bitty front tires.

But then we were kids and had all the time in the world to waste while we were supposed to be working at 2am.


Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2017 at 2:12am
With the advent of radials match mounting for radial first harmonic of force variation became more important than reducing the size of the corrective balance weight.

Today's tires are match mounted with the high point of R1H to the low spot of the radial runout of the rim flanges. (at the factory) and most are optimized for radial pull to offset conicity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2017 at 4:10am
Originally posted by Joe Friday Joe Friday wrote:

With the advent of radials match mounting for radial first harmonic of force variation became more important than reducing the size of the corrective balance weight.

Today's tires are match mounted with the high point of R1H to the low spot of the radial runout of the rim flanges. (at the factory) and most are optimized for radial pull to offset conicity.


Now you're just making stuff up to make me feel dumb. "Optimized for radial pull to offset coniciity." I have a masters degree and I have no idea what that means. Cliff at the Chevron never said anything about "radial first harmonic of force variation." He just told us to get the bubble in the middle of the circle.



Keep it coming. I know I'll understand something eventually.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2017 at 5:56am
Ever wonder what the yellow or orange oval stickers on the sidewalls of the tires on new cars delivered to the dealers were ? location of the sticker is the high point  of R1H and the color is the polarity. Yellow = positive, orange = negative.
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