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Buick V6 into CJ2A, minimal mods... |
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LesBerg 
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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 Topic: Buick V6 into CJ2A, minimal mods...Posted: 06 July 2016 at 12:11am |
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I've got almost everything worked out to stuff the V6 into the 2A.
Except the driver's side exhaust. My bucket-o-parts came with both headers and manifolds, but neither fit. The setup I bought was in a 3B with Rube Goldberg power steering. Does anyone know of an exhaust manifold that will fit a 2A without steering mods? Like Oldtime, the engine, etc are set up 3/4 inch left of centerline. Here are a couple of pics of what's going on:   If I have to, I'll mod the crap outta the driver's side header, but I'd really prefer to run manifolds.
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 06 July 2016 at 12:17am |
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Oh. I've since pulled the PS pump and the motor is mocked up pretty close to where it needs to be. I'll have to notch the floor to the right of the twin sticks to move it over a bit, but I'm not making any mods like that until I know I can lay my hands on the parts I need to make this work.
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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Paleot
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Joined: 25 May 2016 Location: s/w Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Posted: 06 July 2016 at 1:04am |
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Take the header to a good muffler shop have it modified to fit!
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A.L.Fain
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Joe Friday
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Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 26 Dec. 2010 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 3655 |
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Posted: 06 July 2016 at 1:59am |
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Is that a 225 or a 231? What year? The Jeep engines used two passenger side manifolds so the drivers side dumped forward around the steering box. The later model 231 even fire had metric ports and the rounded Jeep manifolds don't fit. I don't think you have a choice except headers.
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lowenuf
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Posted: 06 July 2016 at 2:05am |
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as Joe said, you need a front dump manifold if you are going that way, if you choose headers, you will need "fenderwell" headers...
let me look tomorrow, i may have a front dump manifold, i do have a set of fenderwell headers with turbo mufflers, but they require fender trimming behind the wheels..
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45 #10012
45 #10033 ACM #47 45 #10163 ACM #188 57 CJ5 Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick |
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 06 July 2016 at 3:45am |
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The motor is a 1977 Buick odd fire 231. It was a very short run - the legit Buick (not Kaiser) odd fires were all 231 CI and only made during 75-77. This one has an HEI ignition. It's absolutely a mixed bag - It has an Offenhauser 360 Dual Port intake and the original carb.
I can cut and weld the header to fit if I need to. I like the idea of the front dump manifold though. With that, I could either curve it back like the flathead pipe goes, or I could curl it under the oil pan to a Y-pipe on the passenger side if there's enough clearance. Thanks guys, that clears up a lot. Thanks Low, I appreciate the offer. The PS manifold is the correct unit, but I have no idea what the DS is from.
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 12:25am |
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Like Joe says That ooks like a typical Buick 231 rear dump manifold .
I'm using driver side rear dump manifolds on my flatty projects but mine are the early Buick 225 Fireball and the Dauntless Commando rear dump versions.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 12:38am |
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Your 75-77 231 may be metric ports. If it is NOT metric, then using a Jeep front dump manifold lets you use the CJ5 V6 crossover pipe and eliminate the need for custom bends.
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LesBerg
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 3:19am |
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Oldtime, this is the manifold on the PS. From the only pic I've been able to find on the internet that claims to be of CJ5 V6 manifolds, this seems to be a correct Dauntless manifold. If this is, then it bolts up nicely.  and an updated pic of DS fitment:  Do you think on e of the left side rear dump manifolds will fit this? If not, it looks like a right side rear dump may be the way to go. Does anyone have pics of the manifold they think will fit? I'm headed to a couple of scrap yards tomorrow, and it would be a great help. Joe, this is definitely an odd fire 231. Do you know where I can find a picture of the system you're talking about? I'd love to have a look so I can get an idea of how it would fit. Thanks, Les
Edited by LesBerg - 07 July 2016 at 3:24am |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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Fltfndr
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Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 796 |
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 2:26pm |
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Why not go to power steering, its not that difficult to do.
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 2:43pm |
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Les, take your passenger side manifold and test fit it to the driver side. If it fits. that's what you need. I'll try to find a source for the y pipe. PS- just because the bolts line up does not mean the ports match. Do a pencil rubbing of both the assure they match in shape and dimension.
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 3:12pm |
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gotcha!
fltfndr: I want to keep the jeep as period correct as I can. I'd rather not install the V6 at all, but I can't locally source a flathead, running or not. My block may be rebuildable, but if it is, I'm looking at having a sleeve removed and four installed in addition to all the other usual work. I simply can't afford it. Again, if there's anyone interested in trading this motor for a running L134, I'm all for it. Joe: I'll gasket-match the manifold and see where I am with it. I wasn't sure if fitment was a port or bolt pattern issue. Thanks, Les
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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oldtime
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 4:23pm |
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Yeah I agree that your passenger manifold looks like a typical Jeep manifold.
Check fit on other side as suggested.
A Jeep rear dump for driver side looks similar to the passenger manifold . The heat control valve is never used on the drivers side. Not for Buicks or Jeeps. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 07 July 2016 at 7:48pm |
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OK, I'm busting out the band saw.
I'm hoping to retain the stock motor mounts in this build. With any luck, I'll be able to fab V6 mounts that attach to the stock L4 mounts. I'd have to have a center-dump DS manifold to clear the mount if I attach to the L4 pads - the stock 225 manifold hits the stock pad on the driver's side. The 3.8/231 manifold (assuming that the PS is a mirror of the DS) clears the stock pad to the rear, but won't have room between the mount and the frame. If I use a stock manifold and dump forward, my only choice will be to go under the oil pan at the front of the motor, and then I'm going to have a rough time clearing the front drive shaft... Sooo.. time to bust out the band saw. I'm turning the driver side Heddman Hedder into a center-dump tri-y. I'll figure out what order to join them in, and get crackin'. The idea is to tuck them through the small space between the steering box, drag link and the motor mount. You can see that the tube that's still attached is touching the drag link. I'll cure that as part of the build.  |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 09 July 2016 at 1:32am |
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Heh. So does anyone know the basic design principle behind tri-y headers?
The basic idea is to pair any given cylinder with it's opposite in the firing order to maximize exhaust scavenging... Go figure that it doesn't work on this particular V6... each cylinder's opposite is on the other side of the block. This motor's firing order is 1-6-5-4-3-2 or -wait for it- 6-5-4-3-2-1 basically, any cylinder on either side is only separated by one fire on the opposite side. So for a tri-y, you can pair either cylinder, then tie the other in. In fact, it probably won't build any better power than a (nominally) equal-length header, and could potentially be worse. I'm still going to build it tri-y style because of the tight squeeze to get through the available space. I don't think I can get three 1.5 inch pipes through that hole, but I can get a 1.5 and a 1.75 through it. At some point, I'll rebuild the header on the other side to match. Anyway, back to work... |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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rocnroll
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Posted: 09 July 2016 at 3:04am |
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Just my two cents worth.....I think you're probably over thinking the exhaust potential for this particular application.
Just look at those stock manifolds....3tubes run together any way you can get around the steering box will be fine. Heck even a big tube with 3 smaller tubes feeding into it will suffice....Google 'lakes headers' and see it spurs an idea. Also, look at Flathead Ford tube headers and see how simplistic they can be. Like I said 2 cents that weren't asked for. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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LesBerg
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Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 11 July 2016 at 12:10am |
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Oh, I know I am. Guilty as charged. I can't help it.
 I'm hoping to pick up some tubing in the next couple of days to get this done. redoing the passenger side is as much for a balanced look under the hood as anything. I do this as much for learning new stuff as anything else... And I've always sucked at math, so any time I can put it to actual use and understand what I'm doing, I do. I just want to make sure I don't make the system worse than it needs to be.
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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Mudrider1966
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Posted: 16 July 2016 at 8:24pm |
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Im doing the same swap in my 48 CJ2A. here are some pics that might help.    |
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