Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Modifications from original
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Building a Universal Modified
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Building a Universal Modified

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 6061626364 96>
Author
Message
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2017 at 10:44pm
.... just checked. Elevation: 585 ft
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
Unkamonkey View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Mar. 2016
Location: Greeley CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2093
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2017 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

.... just checked. Elevation: 585 ft

That is funny to some of us, my house is at 4660' but I've been out in that area so I know what it looks like.
uncamonkey
Back to Top
Lee MN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 Aug. 2008
Location: Harris, MN
Status: Online
Points: 4923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2017 at 12:33am
Wow 585', looking down on you from 835', LOL...... Anyway Sunday humor behind us, how's the transmission ?, all good ?

Lee
               LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys
49 2A
“If you wait, you only get older”
67 M715
American Made Rolling History
Back to Top
smfulle View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 16 Sep. 2010
Location: Ogden, Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 6123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2017 at 1:48am
Does the Tabefnacle require a roll bar and seat belts at the off road park?
Stan
48 CJ2A (Grampa's Jeep)
59 Chevy 1/2 ton
Grampa's Jeep Build Thread
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2017 at 2:28am
Originally posted by Lee (MN) Lee (MN) wrote:

... how's the transmission ?, all good ? ...

Yes. Tranny is good. It did leave a few witnesses the first couple weeks but now I see no leakage and no more diapers! Actually, everything is running good. Knock on wood, BAM BAM is ready for Moab but now the tranny in my truck is out but I have some time. Hope EJS is late enough this year to miss any snow crossing the Rockys.

Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

Does the Tabernacle require a roll bar and seat belts at the off road park?
I haven't seen any official rules but I have both ... the subject has come up though Don't worry Stan, I think I can sneak you in.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
russnj View Drop Down
Admin
Admin
Avatar
Webmaster

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: W. Windsor, NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 3943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2017 at 2:50am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

.... just checked. Elevation: 585 ft


Hey your almost 10 times higher than me! I'm at 60 feet! LOL

43 MB, 48 CJ2A, 50 CJ3A, 55 M38A1, 56 CJ5, 79 M151A2, M100 ,65 M416
Back to Top
leecarr View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Sep. 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leecarr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2017 at 4:57pm
I'm about 50', 2 minutes from the ocean.
Back to Top
tamnalan View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct. 2013
Location: Port Orford, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 986
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2017 at 2:08am
Are you getting a lot of snow, leecarr?  SW Ohio winter has been pretty mild so far.  It was in the mid 60s last Sat.
 
Whoops Jpet - sorry to hijack.  Hope I get to see you and Bam Bam at that same May event again this year!
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
1950 cj3a
M-100 x2
teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
Back to Top
leecarr View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Sep. 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leecarr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2017 at 1:47pm
Been pretty nasty lately, big storm then rain then more snow now about 10" of frozen slush, very hard to walk on.
60 is time to break out the shorts and turn on the AC. It will melt some day, then we'll have mud for 2 weeks. Gotta love it.
Back to Top
oldtime View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep. 2009
Location: Missouri
Status: Online
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb. 2017 at 4:47pm
Jeff, I'm wondering about Holbrooks vs St Louis Spring ?
You have ideas concerning that ?
Also since you had your customs built a little lower than the Holbrooks.... 
I'm thinking that simply shortening the leaves by a couple inches might be a better option than flattening them.
Specifically I don't think I would want the front leaf pivot brackets messing with my clutch pivot bracket.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb. 2017 at 5:42pm
Ken,  

Holbrook vs St Louis Spring:

St Louis Spring, is just the springs.  Holbrook is a kit so you get the hangers and shims.  Since I have access to a machine shop and materials. I was able to save some bucks but If I could not make my own hangers and shims,  and I just wanted Holbrooks with less lift, I would buy a set of Holbrooks and tweak them to the right height in a press.  I'm not sure if either set would work with a stock clutch petal.  I know that my hanger overlapped the clutch tube mount as you described.  Not much, so it can be done with some thought.  The first rivet hole for my hanger is in line with the first rivet hole in the clutch tube bracket.

Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

....I'm thinking that simply shortening the leaves by a couple inches might be a better option than flattening them.....

Are we talking about with offset pins? ... or are you talking about using 42" centered pins like the rear?

I think a set of 42" fronts would be similar flexibility if extending your frame horns and/or changing you wheelbase is an option.  It was not for me.  Holbrooks are not only longer, they are thicker.  5/16" thick to be exact.  which allows them to be longer but not wear out so fast. ... That being said, I really don't know how long mine will last since I have only had them a year.  Longevity is not a concern for me since I would be willing to replace my springs annually if that is what it takes for flexibility.

.... If you have an idea for a spring design, i can draw it up for you and send it to Stl Spring.  They will make them for you.  Mine cost around $700.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
Fltfndr View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Nov. 2013
Location: Clive, IA
Status: Offline
Points: 793
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fltfndr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb. 2017 at 9:29pm
Hey Oldtime,

I have the Holbrooks that jpet used to get his measurements from.   A couple of thoughts regarding your project.  The more you shorten your leafs, the less flexibility you will have.

When I installed mine,. the measurements suggested in the instructions caused me to shorten the drivers side spring perch and place the shortened perch directly against the cross shaft bracket and drill a new hole. After several off road excursions all is fine with the exception that my front shackles are vertical in stead of leaning forward a small amount.  My plan is to reverse the drivers side perch and place the original end of the perch directly against the cross shaft bracket and drill the frame to match the short end of the shackle, then transfer that measurement to the passenger side.  This should shift the spring forward a little and lean the front shackles a little forward so that there are no concerns about the spring reversing.

Flatfender
Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac"
The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton
Back to Top
oldtime View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep. 2009
Location: Missouri
Status: Online
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb. 2017 at 10:57pm
Very interesting guys thanks for the details.
I really don't want to mess with my pedal pivot brackets because I have the M38 pedal pivots.

I have often considered 42" rear springs being installed up front and will continue to think about it.

I wonder what if any advantages for leaves with centered pins over leaves with offset pin.
Logic suggest the leaves would wear out more evenly.
I'm thinking the flex could be better with centered pins.



Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

Back to Top
Lee MN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 Aug. 2008
Location: Harris, MN
Status: Online
Points: 4923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2017 at 12:01am
Oldtime, I think it all boils down to if your willing to modify your frame or not. The advantage of the "Hollbrooks" is you get a longer spring/flexibility without altering length of frame with the offset center pin/bolt. Using the rears on the front would certainly be the cheaper option but frame length will need to be altered and perhaps alter your angle of approach slightly.

Lee

Edited by Lee (MN) - 18 Feb. 2017 at 12:03am
               LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys
49 2A
“If you wait, you only get older”
67 M715
American Made Rolling History
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2017 at 12:33am
All good points. The only reason I know of for having an offset pin is to try and maintain stock dimensions. As I said earlier, if frame dimensions are not important, I would probably opt for a centered pin.

OTOH, Probably the main reason I went with the Holbrook style springs is because I have never heard or read a review of them that was less than awesome. I have read mixed reviews of 42" springs up front even though most of them are positive. This is probably not the most scientific way to choose springs, and I do like to research and analyze these mechanics but in then end, I'll always take experience over data.

I can't speak for 42" up front and back but I will say that the Holbrook style springs are night and day over stock and I hope that I have demonstrated that. HTH.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2017 at 12:46am
... almost forgot.... Another thing that was on my mind is my approach angle. 3 extra inches forward my not be so bad with bigger tires but If you are running 32s like I am, It doesn't hurt to have the shortest front possible. Something else to think about.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
oldtime View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep. 2009
Location: Missouri
Status: Online
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2017 at 4:47pm

Well I certainly don't want to extend the frame horns and there-by increase the approach angle. 

And I certainly plan to retain the M38 pedal pivot bracket.
So 44" of front spring length is certainly pushing it. 

Yes I fully understand that offset pin is solely used in order to approximate standard wheelbase locations.
I simply believe that having centered pins provides superior service where applicable.
In my mind they will flex more evenly and thereby provide better durability.

In truth there exists a small multitude of factors concerning Willys leaf spring suspension.
I have previously tried several various mock ups and considered their merits.

The main objective is paramount. 
To increase the wheel vertical travel without adverse effect upon approach angle, the ride height (COG) or load capacity.

In many cases the vertical travel may be significantly increased without even changing spring length.
As an example: I happened to acquire a set of Ommix Adda front springs.
They are way overly stiff.
If I put all of the Jeeps weight upon a single front leaf then they still have 2" gap just to reach the bump stop. 
The obvious solution is to soften the spring pack so that full travel may be achieved.

Beyond that if we plan to increase front travel beyond standard then the jeep spring lift must be increased.
We can lift by increasing spring arc or the height by using longer arcs
Simply lengthening the leaf without raising the overall height does nothing to increase vertical wheel travel.
Lengthening the spring alone only serves to spread the forces out over a greater distance thereby reducing leaf stress and increasing leaf durability.

Beyond increased durability...
I'm thinking that the only big advantage of long leafs to be increased flexibility without decreasing load capacity.

At this point I feel that stock length leaves should be softened just enough to allow full travel.
The arc should be slightly increased to gain lift.
The pivot brackets should be raised and the shackle length should be slightly lowered in order to get the ride height back to standard.

Wheel travel is eventually subject to shock absorber limitations.
If more front travel is desired then the frame curvature and engine / propeller shaft interference becomes a real concern.


Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

Back to Top
Fltfndr View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Nov. 2013
Location: Clive, IA
Status: Offline
Points: 793
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fltfndr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2017 at 10:07pm
Just wanted to clear up some possible confusionfrom my previous post  Installing the Holbrooks DID NOT require any modificationsto the clutch pivot bracket.  I only had to shorten the spring perch bracket that came with the springs and mount it directly in front of the clutch pivot bracket.

Fltfndr


Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac"
The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 6061626364 96>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.