Building a Universal Modified |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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.... just checked. Elevation: 585 ft
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Unkamonkey
Member Joined: 23 Mar. 2016 Location: Greeley CO Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
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That is funny to some of us, my house is at 4660' but I've been out in that area so I know what it looks like. |
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uncamonkey
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Lee MN
Member Joined: 13 Aug. 2008 Location: Harris, MN Status: Online Points: 4923 |
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Wow 585', looking down on you from 835', LOL...... Anyway Sunday humor behind us, how's the transmission ?, all good ?
Lee |
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6123 |
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Does the Tabefnacle require a roll bar and seat belts at the off road park?
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Yes. Tranny is good. It did leave a few witnesses the first couple weeks but now I see no leakage and no more diapers! Actually, everything is running good. Knock on wood, BAM BAM is ready for Moab but now the tranny in my truck is out but I have some time. Hope EJS is late enough this year to miss any snow crossing the Rockys.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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russnj
Admin Webmaster Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: W. Windsor, NJ Status: Offline Points: 3943 |
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Hey your almost 10 times higher than me! I'm at 60 feet! |
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43 MB, 48 CJ2A, 50 CJ3A, 55 M38A1, 56 CJ5, 79 M151A2, M100 ,65 M416 |
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leecarr
Member Joined: 27 Sep. 2016 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 910 |
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I'm about 50', 2 minutes from the ocean.
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tamnalan
Member Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 986 |
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Are you getting a lot of snow, leecarr? SW Ohio winter has been pretty mild so far. It was in the mid 60s last Sat.
Whoops Jpet - sorry to hijack. Hope I get to see you and Bam Bam at that same May event again this year!
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Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740 |
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leecarr
Member Joined: 27 Sep. 2016 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 910 |
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Been pretty nasty lately, big storm then rain then more snow now about 10" of frozen slush, very hard to walk on.
60 is time to break out the shorts and turn on the AC. It will melt some day, then we'll have mud for 2 weeks. Gotta love it. |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4134 |
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Jeff, I'm wondering about Holbrooks vs St Louis Spring ? You have ideas concerning that ? Also since you had your customs built a little lower than the Holbrooks.... I'm thinking that simply shortening the leaves by a couple inches might be a better option than flattening them. Specifically I don't think I would want the front leaf pivot brackets messing with my clutch pivot bracket.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Ken,
Holbrook vs St Louis Spring: St Louis Spring, is just the springs. Holbrook is a kit so you get the hangers and shims. Since I have access to a machine shop and materials. I was able to save some bucks but If I could not make my own hangers and shims, and I just wanted Holbrooks with less lift, I would buy a set of Holbrooks and tweak them to the right height in a press. I'm not sure if either set would work with a stock clutch petal. I know that my hanger overlapped the clutch tube mount as you described. Not much, so it can be done with some thought. The first rivet hole for my hanger is in line with the first rivet hole in the clutch tube bracket.
Are we talking about with offset pins? ... or are you talking about using 42" centered pins like the rear? I think a set of 42" fronts would be similar flexibility if extending your frame horns and/or changing you wheelbase is an option. It was not for me. Holbrooks are not only longer, they are thicker. 5/16" thick to be exact. which allows them to be longer but not wear out so fast. ... That being said, I really don't know how long mine will last since I have only had them a year. Longevity is not a concern for me since I would be willing to replace my springs annually if that is what it takes for flexibility. .... If you have an idea for a spring design, i can draw it up for you and send it to Stl Spring. They will make them for you. Mine cost around $700.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Fltfndr
Member Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Hey Oldtime,
I have the Holbrooks that jpet used to get his measurements from. A couple of thoughts regarding your project. The more you shorten your leafs, the less flexibility you will have. When I installed mine,. the measurements suggested in the instructions caused me to shorten the drivers side spring perch and place the shortened perch directly against the cross shaft bracket and drill a new hole. After several off road excursions all is fine with the exception that my front shackles are vertical in stead of leaning forward a small amount. My plan is to reverse the drivers side perch and place the original end of the perch directly against the cross shaft bracket and drill the frame to match the short end of the shackle, then transfer that measurement to the passenger side. This should shift the spring forward a little and lean the front shackles a little forward so that there are no concerns about the spring reversing. Flatfender
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4134 |
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Very interesting guys thanks for the details.
I really don't want to mess with my pedal pivot brackets because I have the M38 pedal pivots. I have often considered 42" rear springs being installed up front and will continue to think about it. I wonder what if any advantages for leaves with centered pins over leaves with offset pin. Logic suggest the leaves would wear out more evenly. I'm thinking the flex could be better with centered pins. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Lee MN
Member Joined: 13 Aug. 2008 Location: Harris, MN Status: Online Points: 4923 |
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Oldtime, I think it all boils down to if your willing to modify your frame or not. The advantage of the "Hollbrooks" is you get a longer spring/flexibility without altering length of frame with the offset center pin/bolt. Using the rears on the front would certainly be the cheaper option but frame length will need to be altered and perhaps alter your angle of approach slightly.
Lee Edited by Lee (MN) - 18 Feb. 2017 at 12:03am |
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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All good points. The only reason I know of for having an offset pin is to try and maintain stock dimensions. As I said earlier, if frame dimensions are not important, I would probably opt for a centered pin.
OTOH, Probably the main reason I went with the Holbrook style springs is because I have never heard or read a review of them that was less than awesome. I have read mixed reviews of 42" springs up front even though most of them are positive. This is probably not the most scientific way to choose springs, and I do like to research and analyze these mechanics but in then end, I'll always take experience over data. I can't speak for 42" up front and back but I will say that the Holbrook style springs are night and day over stock and I hope that I have demonstrated that. HTH. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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... almost forgot.... Another thing that was on my mind is my approach angle. 3 extra inches forward my not be so bad with bigger tires but If you are running 32s like I am, It doesn't hurt to have the shortest front possible. Something else to think about.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4134 |
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Well I certainly don't want to extend the frame horns and there-by increase the approach angle. And I certainly plan to retain the M38 pedal pivot bracket. So 44" of front spring length is certainly pushing it. Yes I fully understand that offset pin is solely used in order to approximate standard wheelbase locations. I simply believe that having centered pins provides superior service where applicable. In my mind they will flex more evenly and thereby provide better durability. In truth there exists a small multitude of factors concerning Willys leaf spring suspension. I have previously tried several various mock ups and considered their merits. The main objective is paramount. To increase the wheel vertical travel without adverse effect upon approach angle, the ride height (COG) or load capacity. In many cases the vertical travel may be significantly increased without even changing spring length. As an example: I happened to acquire a set of Ommix Adda front springs. They are way overly stiff. If I put all of the Jeeps weight upon a single front leaf then they still have 2" gap just to reach the bump stop. The obvious solution is to soften the spring pack so that full travel may be achieved. Beyond that if we plan to increase front travel beyond standard then the jeep spring lift must be increased. We can lift by increasing spring arc or the height by using longer arcs Simply lengthening the leaf without raising the overall height does nothing to increase vertical wheel travel. Lengthening the spring alone only serves to spread the forces out over a greater distance thereby reducing leaf stress and increasing leaf durability. Beyond increased durability... I'm thinking that the only big advantage of long leafs to be increased flexibility without decreasing load capacity. At this point I feel that stock length leaves should be softened just enough to allow full travel. The arc should be slightly increased to gain lift. The pivot brackets should be raised and the shackle length should be slightly lowered in order to get the ride height back to standard. Wheel travel is eventually subject to shock absorber limitations. If more front travel is desired then the frame curvature and engine / propeller shaft interference becomes a real concern. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Fltfndr
Member Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Just wanted to clear up some possible confusionfrom my previous post Installing the Holbrooks DID NOT require any modificationsto the clutch pivot bracket. I only had to shorten the spring perch bracket that came with the springs and mount it directly in front of the clutch pivot bracket.
Fltfndr
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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