Clutch Problem |
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Posted: 17 June 2015 at 6:48pm |
Hi, everyone.
I've been away from my CJ2A project for a while, and am starting to get back to it a little bit. As a result, I've kind of lost my place on where I was, and what all I've done, so please forgive me for my self-induced confusion... This jeep sat unused for about 20 years when I started to get it running again. When I got it running, I had problems with the clutch sticking (not fully releasing from the flywheel with the pedal depressed). If I start the engine with the trans. in gear and the pedal depressed, everything is OK. If I start the engine in neutral, then try to put it in gear, the gears will grind and it can't be put in gear. Sometimes, when I start it in gear and the clutch depressed, the starter will "bump" the jeep forward for an inch and then the clutch will release and it will start. Similarly, if I'm driving and push in the clutch pedal to stop, I can tell the clutch isn't fully released until I apply brake, at which time it will release and disengage the trans. from the engine. The old linkage was in sad shape, so I replaced the cable, control rod, pedal, torque tube, and maybe some other stuff I've forgotten (over a year ago). I then adjusted the linkage according to the manual. The problem still persisted, and that's where I was when I put it on hold for a while. I do know that the new control rod (from Walck's) is slightly longer than the original, but the problem is the same with either one. I'm trying to get back into this project a bit, but trying to find my place again on where I was in figuring this problem out. Can anyone give me some ideas where to start looking? Thanks
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Oilleaker1
Member Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4412 |
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I'd look at the manuals and make sure you got the cross tube in right that has the two arms on it. Then you have the correct play in the clutch petal. Once those two items are correct, all that's left is a clutch disc/pressure plate problem. Did the clutch disc ever rust and stick to the flywheeel or pressure plate? John
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Well, I think the tube is in right. I seem to remember thinking it wouldn't work at all if it was in wrong - is that right? Yes, the disc likely has rusted to the flywheel at some point, but it isn't permanently stuck or I wouldn't be able to clutch at all. What other implications could go along with it having rusted at some point? Thanks
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Adrian
Member Joined: 01 Oct. 2011 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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It sounds like the clutch disc is seized onto the gearbox input shaft....it can't float enough to create the clearance it needs to stop the gearbox internals from rotating.
Its driving the gearbox regardless of the clutch pedal movement. When the pedal is depressed the pressure plate face moves away from the flywheel and the clutch disc should also follow very slightly...my guess is it can't. Adrian
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1946 CJ-2A Column Change 14605
1973 Saab 96 |
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Ryan_289
Member Joined: 17 Mar. 2013 Location: Russellville AR Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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Is the tub on or off? I had my tube in backwards at first and it would shift without the tub on but would grind real bad. If the tub was on I dont think I could have pushed it in enough to even shift.
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Oilleaker1
Member Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4412 |
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I'd remove the oval inspection cover on top of the bellhousing and take a look. It could be stuck still on one side or as indicated, to the input shaft. Driving it and working the clutch, possible PB blaster on the splines, could break it free. John
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Ryan, the tub (what's left of it) is on, and that's what I thought, too.
Also, as far as the problem itself, I was thinking more along the lines of what Adrian described, and that's why I drove it around the pasture every so often to see if the problem would improve with a little use to free it up, but it hasn't helped. Is there any way to address that situation without a tear-down?
Edit: Oops, Oilleaker posted while I was typing. So, I should be able to get a shot at it with some PB without having to split it?
Edited by Dark Horse - 17 June 2015 at 9:31pm |
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Ryan_289
Member Joined: 17 Mar. 2013 Location: Russellville AR Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/assembling-clutch-and-brake-linkages_topic29706.html
I used this thread to make sure mine was assembled correctly. (I had it wrong) The spring end of the tube goes to the transmission. |
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Thanks, Ryan. I'm pretty sure I used that when I put mine back together, too. I'll double check it tomorrow when I have a chance to crawl under it.
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Mike S
Member Joined: 20 May 2006 Location: West Coast Status: Offline Points: 2318 |
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you can CHECK THE CLEARANCE ON THE CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE FINGERS THROUGH THE ACCESS HOLE. If any of them are out of spec, that is likely the problem. This is fairly close tolerance spec and if one or two fingers are not clearing the friction plate it will keep turning.
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'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Mike, is that adjustable without a tear-down? I have a couple of tractors that you can set the fingers on through an access hole.
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p3ferris
Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Norfolk Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 3812 |
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You changed the clutch cable...is it the right one there is a long and a short one. The long one will not disengage if it needs the short one . Then if it is the right one you may have to tighten the clutch cable. You should have 1" of play on the pedel
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Ed
cj2a lefty |
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a4cj2a77
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 03 Sep. 2012 Location: Seal Beach Ca. Status: Offline Points: 566 |
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I have seen the disc starting to come apart causing the disc to drag on the pressure plate causing your complaint. Also if the input shaft is sticking in the brg/ bushing in the crank, same result. trans stays spinning causing engagement issues.
Phil
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Excellent input, guys! I will see what I can find out about it this afternoon, and will keep all these things in mind.
One thing I did find - I keep a pretty good maintenance log (a habit from working on airplanes, plus my memory is crap). I went back and looked where I replaced the clutch linkage (actually 2 years ago). I do not see anywhere that I replaced the cable like I thought. I just replaced the torque tube (studs, seals, springs, etc.), and the link rod. I then wrote: "...adjusted pedal free travel to spec. (1-1/2 in.)" Hmmm...I'm not sure why I went with 1-1/2 in. instead of the 1 in. listed in the manual, but I know there is a Service Letter somewhere that specifies changing the free play from 1 in. to 1-1/2 in. because of a change in the length of either the cable, the link rod, or maybe both. I'm not sure why I thought at the time this would apply to me, but that must be where I got it from (I know my new link rod is a bit longer than the original I removed). I also wrote that the clutch tested "Good" afterwards, but honestly I don't remember thinking that I had the problem resolved, so I wonder if my log entry may have been a bit hasty after a quick check that seemed to go well. I wasn't driving the jeep at the time, other than around my back yard to check for function while I was working on it pretty regularly. So, will try to check all these things today. Thanks for all the helpful input, it is much appreciated. |
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Mike S
Member Joined: 20 May 2006 Location: West Coast Status: Offline Points: 2318 |
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On the factory installed 2A clutch, the manual says that adjusting the fingers requires removal of the pressure plate assembly and use of a special jig (of course). I had this problem with a clutch I bought from Herm, but he took it back and had it done correctly. I hope that this is not the problem you are seeing. I think I have a spare (fully functional) clutch assembly that I removed from my 2A, if you need one.
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'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
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Dark Horse
Member Joined: 29 May 2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Well, I had no luck today..
I began by checking the free travel on the pedal - 1-1/2 in., just as my logbook noted. Next, I removed the cover on the top of the bell housing so I could get a look inside at the clutch. There was no evidence of rusting on the input shaft, most likely thanks in part to a bit of a rear main seal leak. Still, I sprayed a few shots of PB Blaster on the splines and pumped the pedal several times while watching the disc to make sure it was traveling back and forth on the splines when it was released by the pressure plate. This appeared normal. Next, I started the engine with the trans. in Neutral and watched the clutch. When I pressed the pedal in, the disc continued to spin for a while, but slowly spun down to a stop and I could put the trans. in gear and out with no problem. Back to neutral, release the pedal and let everything spin for a bit, then push the pedal in, and the disc continues to spin...and spin, and spin, with no end it sight. No way to get the trans. in gear like this. So, I shut it down, put it in gear and re-started with the pedal pressed down. The Jeep lurched an inch forward with the first bump of the starter, then the engine started normally and the disc was stationary, and I could shift to any gear. But, as soon as I released the pedal and let the disc spin, it would not stop spinning when the pedal was pressed again and I would have to stop the engine to start the process over again. OK, so I crawled under and re-adjusted the pedal free travel to just shy of 1 inch (like 7/8 in., or so). I re-started the engine and tested - no improvement in the clutch release. I can't really adjust any more free play out without having the release bearing permanently engaged, so I've got all the slack out of the linkage that I can get away with. Finally, I sat in the seat and depressed the pedal with the trans. in Neutral, and took a long screwdriver and poked around the clutch disc with it. At first, it was stuck, but with a little prying, I could get it to free up and then I could spin it fairly easily using the screwdriver as a pry bar. Bottom line, the issue is not linkage, or travel, or free-play adjustment, etc. The issue is that the clutch disc is somehow binding on either the flywheel or the pressure plate when the engine is running with the pedal released. Once this occurs, nothing seems to be able to jar it loose other than shutting it down and re-starting it with the trans. in gear and the clutch depressed (whereupon the first bump of the starter will cause the Jeep to lurch forward an inch until the disc breaks free and all is well again until the pedal is released again). At this point, I do not see any solution that can be obtained without a split of the trans/engine and removal of the clutch and pressure plate (which of course means a replacement of same). I cannot figure out where the binding is occurring, since I can see the disc move rearward when the pedal is depressed. Perhaps, as was suggested, the lining is delaminating and fouling the interface between the disc and flywheel (or disc and pressure plate). Anyway, I don't see a way to figure it out without a teardown.
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Adrian
Member Joined: 01 Oct. 2011 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
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Its driving via the pilot bearing (bush) if everything else is working its the only contact point left...
Adrian
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1946 CJ-2A Column Change 14605
1973 Saab 96 |
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p3ferris
Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Norfolk Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 3812 |
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My next question Is the fork properly placed on the throwout bearing. Don't ask how I thought of this
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Ed
cj2a lefty |
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