Forum Home Forum Home > The CJ2A Parts Project > Parts List > Frame
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Frame change from 2A to 3A style?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Frame change from 2A to 3A style?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
russnj View Drop Down
Admin
Admin
Avatar
Webmaster

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: W. Windsor, NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 3465
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Frame change from 2A to 3A style?
    Posted: 26 Feb. 2008 at 11:28pm
I spent about an 1/2 searching through the forum from day 1, but I could not find any definite answer on what time frame or serial number 2A's changed to the 3A style frames. Or if this is even a fact or not.

This post has some good info to start with but does anyone have any real facts?

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=2078


Thanks
Russ

43 MB, 48 CJ2A, 50 CJ3A, 56 CJ5, 79 M151A2, M100 ,65 M416
Back to Top
bkreutz View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 17 Oct. 2006
Location: Shoreline WA
Status: Offline
Points: 7023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb. 2008 at 11:41pm
I don't know if this is helpful, but from looking at the parts catalog they list one part number up to S/N 199079, another for 199079 to 215649, another for up to the end of 2A production, and another couple for 3A's, of course then the book muddies everything up by cross referencing these numbers to each other, which makes very little sense, except that maybe the mounting points were all the same, the difference being the radiatior and bellcrank mounts on the later ones. Isn't this fun. LOL
Gale

47 CJ2A 142857
47 Bantam T3-C 16271


Photo page http://bkreutz.smugmug.com/
Back to Top
Turtleherder View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jan. 2006
Location: Asheboro, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turtleherder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 5:45am
If ya'll can be patient for about a month (I'm leaving out, back on the road today.), when I get back, I'll line up my "alleged" 3A frame (bare) and compare it to the '46 I'm taking apart. If there are differences, I'll let you know. I may even try photo posting again.
Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 9:24am
Back to Top
westforkboyd View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2006
Location: Northern Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 3504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 9:37am
Russ
 
I've been trying to find some info on that also. Since joining as a matter of fact. Mule #219719 has the 3A  style frame but the motor mounts are 2A and show no evidence of modification. Still has the original riviting. Was asking members with serial nos. that are close and found no others.
 
Sean advised me that Bob W. would be the best resource for this info. But haven't pressed him for his thinking on it. There have been several threads that address this issue but no definative information, as you said. Just off the top of my head it seems like some think a change occured around #220xxx and thought Mule would be close to that and possibly an example.
 
Maybe your firing up this line of discussion will bear fruit this time. I've hoped Mules body/frame combination was original but can not come up with proof. The discouraging fact is that I have found is 2As with later serial numbers than Mules still have the 2A frames. So my last hope is that W/O made a test/prototype run at around Mules manufacture date.
 
WFB
'48 CJ-2A #184135 Lefty
'49 CJ-2A #219719 Mule
'39 Ford 9N
'55 Oliver Super 55 Ollybelle
Back to Top
russnj View Drop Down
Admin
Admin
Avatar
Webmaster

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: W. Windsor, NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 3465
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 9:41am
Nice! Thanks A lot Bob!
It seems mine falls in the late range 219635 is my serial number, 211728 is my body number. What would the changes to look out for to be sure? I have always been skeptical of both of my tags since they are pop riveted onto the body.

WFB: Mule and my 2A are only 84 numbers apart! If my tags are correct that is.
They must have been made within a few days of each other.

Russ

43 MB, 48 CJ2A, 50 CJ3A, 56 CJ5, 79 M151A2, M100 ,65 M416
Back to Top
westforkboyd View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2006
Location: Northern Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 3504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 4:39pm
Russ
 
That is alot of info from Bob W. Way more changes went on than I had knowledge of. I have only been looking at a few things in regards to Mule: The motor mounts, frame is not strapped, 3A style trans crossmember. My body number is 212854. I like you don't know for sure if the tags are correct.
 
Are you saying yours is on a 3A type frame also?  I wasn't aware our two were so close together. This is interesting.
 
Allen
'48 CJ-2A #184135 Lefty
'49 CJ-2A #219719 Mule
'39 Ford 9N
'55 Oliver Super 55 Ollybelle
Back to Top
russnj View Drop Down
Admin
Admin
Avatar
Webmaster

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: W. Windsor, NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 3465
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 4:52pm
Yes, mine has the 3A style.
So far I have noticed

1.  2A style spacing for the motor mounts.
2.  transmission cross member bolts to the bottom of the frame rails.
3.  No front bumper gussets.

I will be listing some more after I take another look after seeing Bob's info.

Allen: Are your tags pop riveted on as well?

Russ

43 MB, 48 CJ2A, 50 CJ3A, 56 CJ5, 79 M151A2, M100 ,65 M416
Back to Top
westforkboyd View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2006
Location: Northern Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 3504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 5:18pm
No mine are screwed. Serial slot head, body phillips.
 
Mine is the same as your 1 and 2 but my frame horns were bubba'd so bad I couldn't tell. There were no gussets though.
 
I ordered the replacement frame horns from Walck's and when they came they were thinner and the profile didn't match exactly. I used them after some modifications. So I can't help much there. That does go along with the fact that the 3A frame was heavier guage though.
Your frame then is not strapped either? By that I mean the straps rivited to the top and bottom of the 2A frame?
 
I'm beginning to think we are on to something here. What I don't understand is why later serial number 2A's would go back to the earlier 2A frame? Unless the members I querried about this didn't understand what I was asking. I haven't examined in person these later 2As just questioned members here as I saw their serial numbers.
 
Allen
'48 CJ-2A #184135 Lefty
'49 CJ-2A #219719 Mule
'39 Ford 9N
'55 Oliver Super 55 Ollybelle
Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 7:24pm

I have been saving frame information from the web when I see a photo and serial number posted together. Now I added Russ and Allen to the list. Some of you will probably recognize your serial numbers.

Here is what I have so far.

195513 early frame

199079 change to inverted bell crank 6/11/48 per Bulletin 48-43 (still early type frame)

206711 early frame

209949 early frame

215648 change to late style frame 9/20/1948 per Bulletin 48-60

217424 late frame

219579 late frame

219635 late frame

219719 late frame

222638 late frame

223579 late frame

224206 late frame

From this data it looks like serial number 215648 is actually the frame change point. I would not be surprised if there were a few frames that fall outside of this range. If anyone has a 1948 or 49 CJ-2A please let us know your serial number and what type frame you have.

The later Parts Manuals complicate deciphering the frame change point because late style frames, plus the additional components necessary to retrofit them, quickly superceded the 2 early frames.

There really isn't much in common between early and late frame types. Here are a few differences that stand right out. The front bumper attachment, transmission crossmember attachment, clutch and brake pedal shaft bracket, and shock mounts. Here are some photos of the late type frame.

Passenger side front bumper attachment
 
 
 

Transmission crossmember, body mount, and pedal bracket.

 
 

Shock mounts.

Back to Top
westforkboyd View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2006
Location: Northern Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 3504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 8:24pm
Bob W
 
That for me is just great information! One of the reasons I first came to this site was to find out about Mule. Why the frame was different. I've read and asked and speculated for years and had given up on the idea that it had the original frame on there. Resigned myself to the fact that it had been bubba'd by a PO who had put a 2A body on a 3A frame! One never knows for sure I guess uless you bought it new but it now looks like this was the frame that was originally assembled with it.
 
 I wasnt aware of all the markers you have researched except the few I mentioned. But one of the big ones was the strapping. From your data then they dropped the strapping after #215648? I understand now why you would want photo evidence of the markers. I have questioned many members about their configurations and most say no mine is a 2A frame (referring to characteristics of the early one).  Maybe miscommunication or incomplete comprhension but I'll bet this has been difficult for you to verify the data you have gathered.
 
Sean had advised me in the past that you would be the one to help me about Mule but I never broke the ice so to speak.
 
Thanks alot
Allen
'48 CJ-2A #184135 Lefty
'49 CJ-2A #219719 Mule
'39 Ford 9N
'55 Oliver Super 55 Ollybelle
Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb. 2008 at 8:40pm
The strapping also goes away at 215648. It is a big change but I think it doesn't stand out like some of the other differences. From the side it does look like the frame is 2 layers thick. I identified the frame type for most of the vehicles in my list by examining photos posted on the web.
Back to Top
captianpattson View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 Apr. 2010
Location: ST GEORGE, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captianpattson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2010 at 2:22pm
If you'll check out my jeep project thread. We discussed this a bit. For a bit we thought my 49 frame may have been a 3A but it was determined to be a 2A.
'49 CJ2A in fewer pieces than before
My Build Thread
Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2010 at 7:35pm
Thanks for adding the info about your late frame!
Back to Top
Rob H. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 July 2005
Location: Petersville, Ky.
Status: Offline
Points: 1471
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob H. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2010 at 8:52am
Bob, you've seen my 48. It has the late frame, but of course I have no idea of the serial number as the plates are missing. Only thing I can date mine by are the casting dates on the transmission, tranfer case and rear axle housing. All of them were mid July of 48. But then I'm not absoulutely sure anything is original to my 48 as it's had a very varied past from what I was told by a PO. LOL
Rob H.

1948 CJ2A
bits and pieces of three 3A's
1967-72 Chevy C/10 kinda combined them LOL




Back to Top
westforkboyd View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2006
Location: Northern Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 3504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2010 at 9:12am
Good morning Bob
 
Have you gathered any information on the absence of bolt holes in the right frame rail for the gen splash guard on the late 2A frames? We visited a bit about that in Cincy this spring. Glad we were able to finally meet up there. 
 
 
'48 CJ-2A #184135 Lefty
'49 CJ-2A #219719 Mule
'39 Ford 9N
'55 Oliver Super 55 Ollybelle
Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2010 at 9:17am
Hi Rob,

It is certainly possible that gearboxes with mid July castings ended up in a 2A with a late style frame. With those dates that Jeep would be one of the very first with the later style frame. Too bad the tags are missing! Thanks for the info.
Back to Top
Scott R View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar. 2007
Location: Gaines, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1387
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2010 at 9:22am
Mine is 221621. Late frame.

At this moment I know for sure... No bumper gussets and the transmission crossmember is bolted to the bottom of the frame.

I will need a little more info to know if I have the  "2A style spacing for the motor mounts" or not.
Michigan Flat Fender Club on Facebook

1949 CJ2A #221621

1965 CJ-5
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.