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Front axle shafts

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    Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 5:15pm
On a recent stay in Utah I broke my left front axle shaft. There was 45 vehicles and 152 people on the trail in our group. We were on the Hole in the Rock trail and were just past Marble camp climbing a bad dugway to take tools to a broke down 4 wheeler when the axle started acting up and then went South.

Both shafts are Bendix and the balls fell out of the left side ale shaft. It was banging and beating about. I removed the drive flanges and the front drive shaft and drove 20 miles back to the parking area and loaded the Jeep and headed back to Blanding. Calvin was with me and helped me get back to the parking area and back to Blanding. In spite of he failure we and everyone else had a grand time. In hind sight I wish I had just continued to the end of the trail at Powell Lake but it is what it is.

When I got back to Ky I tore into it and found the bad shaft. I have a pair of Rzeppa axles I plan to use rather than buy the Spicer axles. I will call Walcks Monday and get the stuff I need to redo the knuckle bearings and install the axles.

Having played with the Rzeppa and knowledge of how a Spicer U joint works I feel more comfortable with the Rzeppa for extreme articulation than I do with the Spicer on the trails. 

After going to SE Utah for 7 years now and having driven over 12,000 miles on the trails there and about 2,000 miles on the Chloride Az trails I have become very good at negotiating trails and understanding my Jeep and what I can and can't do and what I need in a Jeep. The Lock Right in the rear axle has saved me many times and I could not have gotten out of the Hole in the Rock trail without it.

I don't feel the Spicer axle shafts would survive the extreme articulation that I do on some of the tight trails. Keeping in mind that the axles in my jeep are likely the original axles and may have close to 100,000 miles on them I think they lived a good life considering the torture I and prior owners put them through. 
Life is only as good as you make it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 5:43pm
Carl,
Do you have any trip reports of this and other trips you have taken on other forums? I've seen one or two of them on this forum, but I don't think I've seen seven years worth. I'm always looking for new adventures and southern Utah is a great place with lots to do that I don't know about even though I live in Northern Utah.

The Hole in the Rock trail is on my bucket list. I want to run it on the east and the west side of Lake Powell. Not on the same trip though.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 5:46pm
Personally, I think you're making too much of the difference between the turning radius of Bendix/Rzeppa versus Spicer.  The Spicer's are definitely stronger and I really had no issues with the turning radius on tight trails in my 3B.  Just need to make sure to set the stops correctly.

That said, Spicers do break, just not at the U-joint.  But it lasted 30 something years with the 381 cid sbc under the hood.
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 6:54pm
The Bendix and Rzeppa style axle shafts are a true constant velocity shaft, where the Spicer style shaft isn't.

The concept of constant velocity is a hard concept to explain, but I will try. If you have a shaft with one u-joint, the speed of both sides of the joint are the same if the angle of the joint is zero. If you introduce an angle in the joint by turning the axle, for instance, then the outer portion of the shaft will actually speed up and slow down four times within each revolution of the shaft. The higher the angle, the more pronounced the speed up and slow down with each revolution. The speed of both halves are the same but the velocity of one side changes four times each revolution; these changes in velocity AVERAGE out to the same speed as the other half of the u-joint. This can be illustrated by the wheel romp that is exhibited by some 60's through 90's 4x4 trucks that have Spicer axle shafts and are in four wheel drive on semi-hard surfaces. The steering wheel will romp back and forth. This won't happen with a constant velocity shaft because the velocity of the shaft is the same for both side of the joint regardless of the angle it has to operate in.

Since there is only one u-joint in an axle shaft, the cancellation effect of two Spicer style u-joints like what is used in a driveshaft is impossible. This fact is why late model all-wheel drive SUV's (no hub-lock) all have constant velocity axle shafts installed. If they didn't, then there would be wheel romp exhibited every time the SUV turned a corner.

The reason that a Spicer style u-joint works in a regular driveshaft is that they are designed to work in pairs and one joint cancels the differences in velocity introduced by its mate. This works assuming that each u-joint is operating at the same angle as the other. The AVERAGE speed of the shaft is same as the transmission and axle pinion yoke even though the velocity of the shaft speeds up and slows down with each revolution. If the angle of one u-joint is changed without changing the other then the cancellation of velocity changes begins to be noticed as a vibration; the higher the difference in angles, the more vibration is noticed. This is noticed most often when the lift of a vehicle is changed radically without a corresponding change in the angles the driveshaft has to operate in. Shimming of a axle can often correct the angle difference.

The Bendix and Rzeppa styles of axle shafts were some of the earliest forms of constant velocity shafts and have proved to be very durable. Unfortunately the replacement of them is getting harder to accomplish because no one has built them in decades. As they wear, this introduces more slop into the joint which eventually turns to slap. The slap will cause the joint to fail in extreme circumstances that can and do occur in off-road situations.

Edited by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A - 26 Mar. 2017 at 6:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 8:04pm
I just made a comment on the 3A furum so I'll repost it here in blue ...

In actual use I have run all 3 types of axle shafts.
In 1983 I went exclusively to Rzeppa joints in my Dana 25's.
I ran them with Power Loks and had zero problems
Very soon I'll be converting back to Dana 30's and Spicer type joints.

It's my opinion that Rzeppa shafts are the absolute optimum for anyone with D25 or D27 steering axles.
IMHO the Bendix are the worst.

IMHO Axle shaft desire ability pretty well follows the maximum allowable steering angle specifications.
Bendix = 23*
Spicer = 27-1/2 *
Rzeppa = 29*

Bendix and Rzeppa are constant velocity type universal joints. 
The single Spicer Cardan cross is not a constant velocity design.

So yes I agree with  SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A .
The constant velocity types are superior. 
But in the real world the constant velocity joint is of no benefit if traveling offroad because of tire slippage.
I have seen zero strength issues with Rzeppa joints as compared to Spicer types. 
That said I have not run Rzeppa's with high torque engines.



  



Edited by oldtime - 26 Mar. 2017 at 8:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 10:01pm
Stan, I have hundreds of photos and a lot of GoPro videos of the past 6 years. This seventh year started as a trip to Utah for the Ward 3 Hole in the Rock trail and I will go back this summer for about 3 months. I don't post many of the photos or videos, especially when I am traveling. 

I found the trail fun but going in a group was not the fun part. going with two or three vehicles would be ok and doing it in one day would be better. we were on the Eastern trail to Lake Powell. The Environmentalists have closed the trail down to Lake Powell for vehicles.

Since Obama declared the Bears Ears a National Monument they may also close the Hole in the Rock trail.That is why the LDS Ward 3 made the trip March 16 to 18. The BLM is giving closed signs to the Environmentalists and telling them to put them where ever they want to so it may not take long to completely close all of the BLM land in San Juan County. Only 8% of San Juan County is owned by the State, County and private citizens.

I drove on any dirt trail I could find and as hard a trail as I could find and had fun and destroyed nothing. The next year I couldn't even find the tracks where I had been the last year. You may have to give up going to SE Utah for good trails.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 10:07pm
Hey Duffer, that is quite a break for sure. In all the years as a mechanic i have watched drive lines as they spin and I don't like the oscillation of the joint and shaft when a shaft is contained at each end close to the U joint. A U joint is not a constant velocity system. However a double cordan is almost a constant velocity system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 10:14pm
Red, that is a very good description of the action of a U joint. The fact that the U joints in a drive line have to be timed together is to eliminate the vibration and drive lines don't work well past a 10 or 15 degree angle. Consequently, the reason I want to use the Rzeppa axles as they are constant velocity and they have 6 balls driving the axle halves rather than the four of the Bendix. The fifth ball of the Bendix is in the center.

Edited by Carlsjeep - 26 Mar. 2017 at 10:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 10:25pm
Oldtime, that is exactly why I decided to use the Rzeppas I have and will look for another pair. One never knows when one will need them. The Rzeppas I have are in excellent condition and I expect they will out last me since I am 75 years old.

I will also be retubbing my Jeep since the tub is settling down around the frame and that's not good. I will keep it WWII flat olive drab because it disappears in the wilderness. I also plan to put my NG numbers on the bumper and maybe a star on the hood. The star on the hood may show up too much from the air so that may not be on Annabelle Lee.

Read Annabelle Lee by Edgar Allan Poe and you'll know why I named her that. A most beautiful poem for a beautiful Jeep for sure and maybe Poe's best poem, however The Raven comes close. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 10:43pm
The BLM is just handing out signs to the environazis?  Shouldn't there be some kind of lawful process they are required to follow to close trails?  Is it possible to find that out?  The bicycle environazis will whine about Jeeps on a trail and the pedestrian environazis will whine about bikes on a trail and the richest of the environazis who will never get on the trail in any case will whine about everyone else, and they all will close trails without approval of the written laws.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlsjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2017 at 5:19am
They tried to issue close signs a few years ago but the Sheriff and people complained when they closed private roads. Late last year and this year they are putting signs on known BLM land again being careful so far to not close state, county or private property but there is very little land not under the BLM in San Juan county. 

The county is suing the BLM to keep the county roads open. Utah and Nevada are joining together to try and get the land in their states under state control and remove the BLM. If all 12 BLM states demand their property and work with the Congress the BLM may be driven out of all 12 states. The Federal Constitution doesn't allow the Federal government to own land in the states other than National parks, monuments and forests. it's a big long story about how and why the government still owns most the land in 12 states.

If Congress or Trump doesn't rescind the Bears Ears National Monument then the county will have few trails for vehicles open to the public. 


Edited by Carlsjeep - 27 Mar. 2017 at 5:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2017 at 3:14pm
I have had great results with Rzeppa's over the years.  I seen Bendex Joints fail and destroy the Dana 25 steering knuckle.  Spicers at least don't destroy the front steering knuckle housing if they fail.  Never had an issue will a Rzeppa on the trail.  I have rebuilt Rzeppa axles that had excessive ware.  Great design -  But I am sure you can destroy them with big tires and a heavy foot on the accelerator.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2017 at 5:34pm
There are 2 versions of the Rzeppa shafts.
The early more common version is equipped with threaded shaft ends used to control axle shaft end float.
The later (post 1953) versions that have the end float controlled via snap ring.
The end float control is used to keep the joint centered inside the hemisphere.

When running Powr Loks the threaded type axle shaft ends may be cut off because the differential center block spacer controls end float.
Cutting off the threaded ends make it easy to fit a freewheeling hub.


Edited by oldtime - 27 Mar. 2017 at 5:36pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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