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Rebuild of J176350

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tamnalan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr. 2017 at 4:08pm
Ditto on the Permatex #2 for head stud threads.  Seals them nicely.  A couple of other suggestions:
- The copper head gaskets are sweet, and only about $10 more than the Fel pro version.
- The new lip-type rubber rear main bearing seals are much easier to install than rope.  The problem-rubber seals are the older, wiper-type design.  Walck and Fitzpatrick both sell the new seals.
- Strongly recommend you have the shop replace the tappet adjuster screws instead of simply refacing the old screws.  New screws are available from Walck's for cheap.
Alan Johnson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxSheridan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2017 at 3:57am
I don't remember where I saw or read this but...
When Installing new head studs, you should put thread sealer both on the stud and in the hole. The reasoning being, sealer will be pushed to the bottom and top of the stud, effectively creating an o-ring of sealer on each end of the threaded area. I haven't got to that point yet, but the theory seems sound, so I'm going to try it that way. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2017 at 2:51pm
I have to admit I'm not completely sure what type of product Permatex #2 is. Does this come in a toothpaste type tube or the little can with a brush inside? I have a tube of Three Bond liquid gasket 1104 that I've used for many things successfully, maybe it's similar?
 
The shop called yesterday, said the engine is done!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2017 at 3:29pm
Yup, toothpaste tube.....dont use it on teeth. Its not expensive. should be on the shelf at the auto parts store.
So.....what are the machine shop & parts damages?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2017 at 3:38pm
I'm planning on picking up the engine tomorrow, which is also payday. I'll probably just hand the check over to them!
 
I'll post up a tally when everything gets home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2017 at 8:09pm
I hope your engine came out great!
 
Permatex #2 is a thick brown goo in a toothpaste tube.  It's great stuff - resists oil and antifreeze well and doesn't harden.  It cleans up pretty easily with brake cleaner or similar solvent.  It's been on the market for decades.
 
It looks more appropriate for our old jeeps than silicone products do (IMHO) and I think it works as good or better anyway.
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
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teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr. 2017 at 2:48pm

From the bill:

 

Bore 4 cyls to 0.060”  $100

Install 2 sleeves            240

Install cam brng            30

Install casting plugs      30

Re-size con rods           72

Grind valve seats          80

Install valve guides       32

Deck block                    80

Machine manifolds       35

Machine flywheel         35

Magnaflux                    20

Clean block                   75

Dis/asmb eng                40

Stitch block                   60

Remove oil plug           30

Grind crank                   130

Valve guides                 20

Sleeves                          76

Casting plugs                20

Misc supplies                30

Engine kit                     325

                                    $1580

 

I see they only charged me for 4 guides and installation of 4 so maybe they forgot or they were serviceable. They only informed me of the sleeve needed for cyl #4 and now sleeves are in both #3 and 4. The stitching is between those cylinders so maybe it was an issue with the cracking.

 

The head had been surfaced two years ago and I elected to re-run the camshaft and followers. Same with the oil pump and the timing gears. I carefully measured the parts and they were within spec. This engine had been rebuilt in the past and some parts looked just fine. The jeep only gets driven about 300 miles a year, it should last forever now.

 

How do these prices compare to other parts of the country? Did I get hosed? The “engine kit” contained 4 pistons, main and rod bearings, rings, cam bearing and a gasket kit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LesBerg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr. 2017 at 2:54pm
I wish I had seen this sooner. I discovered that while most jeep shops only carry Omix or Crown pistons, O'Reilly Auto sells Sealed Power pistons, Melling bearings and such. They don't stock them, but can absolutely get their hands on them.
 
Hope your new motor purrs like a really big kitten. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr. 2017 at 2:58pm
Are you going to have it balanced? In my opinion it's money well spent. They run so much smoother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr. 2017 at 4:58pm
That price looks about right. I paid a very similar amount on my rebuild....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr. 2017 at 10:32pm
That overall bill seems about right to me, at least for similar work where I live in Ohio.
Alan Johnson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr. 2017 at 12:57am
My thought is why not sleeve all the cylinders and keep them standard size instead of installing 2 sleeves and boring them .060 over which is about the limit and restricts you from future boring if ever needed. Their prices seem fair for the parts and labor.

   Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr. 2017 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Joe DeYoung Joe DeYoung wrote:

Are you going to have it balanced? In my opinion it's money well spent. They run so much smoother.
 
I did not elect to have the engine balanced. I've grown so accustomed to it running on three cylinders that once it's hitting on all four it will seem smoother by comparison.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr. 2017 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

My thought is why not sleeve all the cylinders and keep them standard size instead of installing 2 sleeves and boring them .060 over which is about the limit and restricts you from future boring if ever needed. Their prices seem fair for the parts and labor.

   Jim
 
The only reason the block got sleeves was because of cracks. I suppose one could sleeve it down to a standard bore, but that would have cost $158 per hole to do so opposed to $25 to bore. I'm comfortable with it being 0.060" over; I've heard of these engines going to 0.080".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr. 2017 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by otto otto wrote:

Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

My thought is why not sleeve all the cylinders and keep them standard size instead of installing 2 sleeves and boring them .060 over which is about the limit and restricts you from future boring if ever needed. Their prices seem fair for the parts and labor.

   Jim
 
The only reason the block got sleeves was because of cracks. I suppose one could sleeve it down to a standard bore, but that would have cost $158 per hole to do so opposed to $25 to bore. I'm comfortable with it being 0.060" over; I've heard of these engines going to 0.080".

Not piling on, but I'm kinda with Jim on this one... by the time I'm spending 1500, 1800 doesn't hurt as bad Smile

It's my understanding that .08 over is a crap shoot, and frequently leads to over heating issues... you sleeved two, and then bored 3/4 of the life out of them right up front, IMO.

158x4=632
(158+25)x2=366

I'm kinda surprised the shop didn't at least bring it up... We're talkin about 266 bucks, but admittedly hindsight is 20/20...


Edited by mbullism - 18 Apr. 2017 at 3:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr. 2017 at 4:29pm
Keep us in the loop over time regarding the engines performance going forward. Its always informative to learn how well different approaches to rebuilds work out. My 2a had its engine rebuilt by the PO. Some details were omitted, others included, in what "I" would have elected to do. However, and this is whats important, it runs great. Lets not quibble about rebuilds that are already completed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr. 2017 at 5:46am
The sleeving took place after all cylinders were bored and honed and the cracks presented themselves. I see your point about bringing it back to std bore, but it's spilled milk now.


Got the valvetrain in and lashed the valves to a tight 0.016" as per the manual, which seems a bit loose to me.

I took the sheet metal cover off the floating oil pickup to clean the screen and forgot how it was oriented. Does the inlet portion face the pivot or is away from the pivot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr. 2017 at 2:02pm
Rob mine is facing away from the pipe. Here is a pic.  
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