Weird Brake problem |
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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X2 adjust your shoe to drum clearance per your manual. after filling MC secure cap, clean area with brake cleaner to elim spillage causing wet MC, pump brakes to get hard pedal and have assistant check or leaks under jeep. adjusting pedal will elim need to pump pedal several times.
Edited by jeeper50 - 13 Mar. 2017 at 9:53pm |
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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wadoyado
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 29 Sep. 2016 Location: Mi. Status: Offline Points: 728 |
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Man I can almost feel your frustration here in Mi. Do like WeeWilly and jeeper 50 suggest. If that checks out, IMHO master cylinder problem. I know it's a long shot but it's possible for the small hole that feeds the piston from the reservoir in the MC is partial blocked this might explain the need to pump the brakes. Joe Wadoyado
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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A few more ideas to look into: Is there any places where there are loops that might hold air in your brake lines? Is there a chance that the brake switch is leaking brake fluid? Is the brake switch mounted in some orientation that allows it to hold a pocket of air? This is that long shot - Are the flexible lines old? I had a problem with lines collapsing and making the brakes stay engaged - perhaps yours are ballooning under the pressure. |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Stev -
Brake lines are new. Checked at the switch do not think it is the cause of the leak. Wadoyado -- this is possible, but unlikely because it is a new MC and contaminents getting in would be a longshot. After completing bleeding brakes, and seeing no leak from MC or anywhere else, I check the next day and the MC is covered in fluid. Going to have brakes adjusted next week. Mystery leak continues. JS
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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UPDATE *****
Managed to fix the brake leak at the MC. Had a little more room to tighten on the fittings on the MC. Took for it for a nice drive around the block. Unfortunately still have to pump brakes a few times. When the car is stopped I have full brake, as soon as it gets going I lose brakes and have to pump them up a few times, and the brakes are not full. I assume this is most likely a brake shoe adjustment? I adjusted them but maybe not correctly. May take it to the mechanic to do a proper adjustment. |
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6123 |
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Unless your mechanic is an old timer he is not going to know how to adjust your brakes. These things went away in the 50s.
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Mike S
Member Joined: 20 May 2006 Location: West Coast Status: Offline Points: 2318 |
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Rather than just guessing, and taking random shots at it, get your manual out and read the entire brakes section the manual twice or three times before you begin. Start at the far end of the brake system -- the drums. Assure all is within spec and proceed up the system checking everything (brake shoes, wheel cylinders, and brake lines... air leaks, fluid leaks, buggered fittings, etc.) until you get to the MC, then the pedal. Be systematic and take your time.
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'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
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Oilleaker1
Member Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4406 |
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Does the ram from the brake pedal return fully to the rear and stop on the internal circlip? You should have brake pedal slack. If it doesn't , the small bleed hole in the master cylinder is not uncovered or opened up allowing the re-charge of the cylinder.
Pumping to get brakes means shoes need adjusting up with less movement to make contact with the drum. No brakes first pump also could be air still in the system. Start bleeding with the farthest downline brake. Work back progressively to the closest. Use a small clear tube. When the air bubbles quit appearing, move to the next. Those copper washers will leak and also suddenly allow the pedal to go down. It squirts past them . Re-place them. The master cylinder will squirt a stream of fluid vertically inside through the return hole. Your cap needs to be on with a good gasket. Study the manual on which way to turn the shoe adjusters. Turn the drum and listen for rubbing contact. When done , step on the pedal. This centers the shoes. Then go back and do the whole thing again. I'm not very fond of those 4 adjusters.
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Thank you! I will definitely have the mechanic take a look and adjust the brakes. I am glad I got the brake leak solved (hopefully). I assume if their was a leak at the MC from before, and I didn't bleed the brakes, it is possible that air is in the system.
Knowing that it only has no brake pedal when moving, not stopped, is it more likely that air is in the system, or that it needs adjustment? Because technically if it just needed an adjustment, then even at a stop wouldn't it have brake play? Thanks! JS
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Oilleaker1
Member Joined: 06 Sep. 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Status: Offline Points: 4406 |
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You need to re-check the list I sent. Or, have your mechanic do the list. Until the list is checked, all is a guess.
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Green Disease, Jeeps, Old Iron!
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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***UPDATE***
So, after thinking the brake leak was fixed. It randomly came up again. I have not had the chance to bleed/adjust the brakes yet because I wanted to fix this leak. I purchased a new MC just in case because I could not tell if the leak was coming from the front or the back (will return it if need be). The leak would usually also manifest itself over night sometimes, if not right after driving it. After removing MC and removing fittings. I noticed one of the crush washers was old, beat up, and misshapen. I must have stupidly used an old crush washer along with a new one. This may be my problem. I am going to the auto parts store today to see if I can get 2 new crush washers. Hopefully this will solve the problem. js |
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a4cj2a77
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 03 Sep. 2012 Location: Seal Beach Ca. Status: Offline Points: 566 |
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This will be a crash course in brake repair/maint. Sounds like you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck
Phil
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Finally after a month of diagnosing it haha. The worst part is it slipped by a mechanic who 'fixed brake leak'. Guess he didnt try to drive it at all.
Hopefully this is it! JS
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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I have a feeling this thread will NEVER DIE.
So. Pretty sure I fixed the leak. I bled the brakes but did it by myself with a questionable automatic brake bleeder. The problem still persists. First pump is poor, second is better and third is normal. I removed the wheels (for new tire mounting Yes!) Spun the drums to see if any were extremely loose. They all spun about 3/4/ to 1 spin then stopped. One however would get stuck about half way through the spin and the other half of the spin was easy. I definitely need to give more attention to that adjustment. That being said, I would assume that it would indicate the brakes are adjusted correctly? (With that exception of that one wheel). That would most likely lead to air in the lines right? If the drums seem to be adjusted correctly. On a side note. I did take it out for the first ride more than 10 miles on Easter in the beautiful CT weather and it was amazing. Even if I did have to pump the brake the first time I felt safe in the ol girl. I am a 25 year old guy and I had 2 people drive by shouting out their window "LOVE THE WILLYS". It was a good feeling. JS |
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athawk11
Member Joined: 18 Jan. 2012 Location: Arvada,Colorado Status: Offline Points: 4145 |
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You have air in the lines...or possibly a leak in another location. Wheel cylinders or brake lines?
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1- 1946 CJ2A
2- 1949 CJ3A |
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6123 |
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JS,
I still think you have an adjustment problem. It could still be some air in the lines, but I think adjustment. Read through this thread, especially the 3d post down where wrdabney expains how to adjust these strange old fashioned brakes. I had a guy at a gas station almost in tears one day as he babbled on about the memories that my jeep was bringing back to him. I love that, and I love that I am making my own memories with it as well.
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jscheiner.09
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2016 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 311 |
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Thanks guys. I will double check on the adjustments of those and definitely rebleed the lines with a second person to do the ol brake pedal push.
JS
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Red Willy
Member Joined: 18 Mar. 2014 Location: Lake Villa IL Status: Offline Points: 512 |
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JS, you should be able to gravity bleed the brakes to get most if not all the air out of the lines. Remove the MC cap, open the RR bleeder screw and allow fluid to drip until no air bubbles are seen. Repeat with LR, RF and finally LF. Been bleeding brakes for 40 years with this method and with the exception of some newer models with certain ABS applications it works fine. NOTE: remember to check fluid level often, if you allow it to go low you will need to start again. Also, remember to place the cap back on before pushing on the pedal to prevent fluid from coming out of the MC.
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Glen
49 CJ3A |
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