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D18 transfer case project

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Forum Name: Tech Questions and Answers
Forum Description: CJ-2A technical questions here
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Topic: D18 transfer case project
Posted By: ndnchf
Subject: D18 transfer case project
Date Posted: 16 Dec. 2018 at 10:24pm
Now that my T90 rebuild project is done, I'm turning to the D18 transfer case. I've never cracked open a transfer case before, so this is a new adventure for me.



The first roadblack was the parking brake drum - it wouldn't come off. This thing was very rusty, I couldn't event retract the brake shoes. I had to make a puller to get the drum off. It worked great.



I spent most of the afternoon working on it. The pivot pin for the shifters was frozen solid. I finally resorted to oxy/act torch to heat up the case enough to drive it out - what a bear! 



I still have more disasembly to do and there is a broken off oil pan bolt I have to get out. But after a good 4 hours of fighting with it, I'm done and ready for a cold one!





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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.



Replies:
Posted By: Ol' Unreliable
Date Posted: 17 Dec. 2018 at 12:09am
That 27-LED portable work light is the best thing Harbor Freight ever gave away.  Thumbs Up 

Nice work on the Xfer case.


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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable


Posted By: bobevans
Date Posted: 17 Dec. 2018 at 3:17am
Looks good, keep those pics coming.

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'48 CJ2A

'56 DJ3A

'79 CJ7

And two of them actually run!


Posted By: Lee MN
Date Posted: 17 Dec. 2018 at 11:45am
Have fun!. Ron Fitzpatrick has a very nice double lip seal and gasket kit if your parts shopping yet! 👍🏽

Lee

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               LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys
49 2A
“If you wait, you only get older”
67 M715
American Made Rolling History


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 17 Dec. 2018 at 12:16pm
Thanks guys.  I've seen RFP's double lip seal mentioned before - sounds like a great idea.  I'll keep it in mind come parts ordering time.

The parking brake shoes, backing plate and drum are in really bad shape.  The shoes were completely rusted away in some places, the backing plate it almost rusted through.  Fortunately, I have another TC in the shed that is grease caked.  So I should be be able to use the brake parts of it.  I may end up tearing that one down too.

Those little 27 LED Harbor Freight lights are very handy.  I find them especially useful on my parts washer.  I stick two of them inside the lid so I can see what I'm cleaning.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 1:49am
I'm about to the point where I need a special tool to drive the bearing forward on the output shaft. The original tool was a heavy fork-like thing.

http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Photos/w139.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Photos/w139.jpg

Rick Stivers made one from a hatchet. Not quite the same, but it worked. 

http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Photos/RicksW139.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Photos/RicksW139.jpg
http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Photos/HatchetTool.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Photos/HatchetTool.jpg

Short of making a similar tool from a hatchet, does anyone know of another way to do this, or another commonly available tool?



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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: smfulle
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 2:15am
Hatchet thing worked for me.

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Stan
48 CJ2A (Grampa's Jeep)
59 Chevy 1/2 ton
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/grampas-cj2a_topic16836.html" rel="nofollow - Grampa's Jeep Build Thread


Posted By: Joe DeYoung
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 4:41am
I make a puller that specifically deals with that bearing if you're interested. 

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Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife.







Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Joe DeYoung Joe DeYoung wrote:

I make a puller that specifically deals with that bearing if you're interested. 

The hatchet thing seems like a fairly simple solution. But please tell me more about your puller. Do you have a photo?


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Joe DeYoung
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 12:59pm
Puller is two halves that bolt together to capture the bearing and another tow fasteners retain it to the side of the case through the existing front housing holes. You then press or tap the shaft out. Cost is $55+shipping. I have them in stock.
 
 
 


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Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife.







Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 2:53pm
Wow - that's a neat tool Joe.  I'm going to look close at it tonight and determine my way ahead.  I'll let you know. Thanks

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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Mike F
Date Posted: 18 Dec. 2018 at 3:12pm
And less than the axe head and emergency room visit required to make the other one.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 19 Dec. 2018 at 1:43am
Originally posted by Mike F Mike F wrote:

And less than the axe head and emergency room visit required to make the other one.

You got that rightLOL  I contacted Joe, he'll be sending a tool asap Smile

I got most of the disassembly done tonight except the output shaft and the front yoke seal. Even with the front cap off and disassembled, that seal is in there tight (I'm aware if the lip behind it). So I soaked it with PB Blaster and will work on it tomorrow night.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 23 Dec. 2018 at 12:54am
I got the TC completely disassembled today. Joe's tool worked great, but it was a challenge. The bearing was on tight, I had to use the hydraulic press to get it to move. Then I could finally get to the hidden snap ring.



I ran everything through the parts washer for an inital cleaning. Next will be a detailed inspection on each piece. Then I'll be making a list and checking it twice....Wink
The parking brake was badly corroded, so I pulled another TC from the shed and pulled the brake drum, backing plates and parts off to use. This TC has a busted case, but plenty of good parts on it.

I'm new to making videos, but here is a clip of what I've been doing.
https://youtu.be/_0hrzD0OhSI" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/_0hrzD0OhSI



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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 4:30pm
Well crap - I'm at a work stoppage. I was getting parts cleaned up for paint when I found the rear bearing cap is cracked. Grrrr... does anyone have a spare laying around? I'll post a WTB ad.




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bruce W
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 7:06pm
  The rear cap on my 3B was cracked like that. I had no spare parts back then, and needed the jeep for hunting, so I vee'd the crack and brazed it up, filed it smooth and put it on. A good enough temporary repair. Twenty-plus years later, it's still doing fine. Wink  BW

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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.


Posted By: jeeper50
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 8:14pm
Good to see your keeping your mechanic well hydrated!

Sometimes all it takes is a short break to reduce frustration, then try it again


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Belleview ol skool winch soon.
'48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers

Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement



Posted By: mbullism
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  The rear cap on my 3B was cracked like that. I had no spare parts back then, and needed the jeep for hunting, so I vee'd the crack and brazed it up, filed it smooth and put it on. A good enough temporary repair. Twenty-plus years later, it's still doing fine. Wink  BW

All repairs are temporary, until such a time as they work... and become permanent Smile

(a good repair is good, and NOT to be confused with Bubba Weldit LOL )


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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 9:15pm
Brazing it is an option, but I'll try to find a good one first. There is no hurry. This and the T90 I just finished are going on the shelf as ready spares when needed. A guy who lives an hour away has a spare TC. He's going to check out the bearing cap and let me know.

The day wasn't a loss. I spent the last 3 hours completely tearing down the second D18. I'll be able to use a number of parts from this one. Unfortunately the rear bearing cap is broken at the parking brake lever pivot point. Ouch

I have to give kudos to Joe's bearing tool. I've used it twice now and it worked great. Well worth the money in my book.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: nofender
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 11:41pm
I'll take a look. I may have one. I'll PM you if I come up with one. 

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46 CJ2a rockcrawler
46 CJ2a - 26819
46 Bantam T3c "4366"
47 Bantam T3C - 11800
68-ish CJ5


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 27 Dec. 2018 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by nofender nofender wrote:

I'll take a look. I may have one. I'll PM you if I come up with one. 

Thanks nofender, I appreciate it. I've been doing some looking online. I didn't realize there are at least 3 or 4 different rear bearing caps. So just to be clear which one I need, here is a photo of mine.




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 28 Dec. 2018 at 1:16am
Matt Fox of QTM is selling a complete gasket and seal kit with the double lip seals.
You could easily weld that bearing cap with some  55% nickle rod.
You don't even need to be a good welder just a good grinder !  Ha Ha  !


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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: Unkamonkey
Date Posted: 28 Dec. 2018 at 1:40am
I don't know how true this is but a motorcycle mechanic said that he repaired several bike or water craft parts my mixing a slurry of AL or what ever metal you are dealing with and slow setting super glue. Set up a mold to contain what you pour in and shoot it with an accelerator that causes it to set up almost immediately. He claimed that you could drill, machine or whatever after it set up. I never have tried it and I know that the guy is a bit of a BS artist. YMMV.

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uncamonkey


Posted By: nofender
Date Posted: 28 Dec. 2018 at 11:17am
I knew i had one on the shelf! Unfortunately, it too is broken where the e-brake stud used to be. Sorry....no luck here. 

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46 CJ2a rockcrawler
46 CJ2a - 26819
46 Bantam T3c "4366"
47 Bantam T3C - 11800
68-ish CJ5


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 28 Dec. 2018 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by nofender nofender wrote:

I knew i had one on the shelf! Unfortunately, it too is broken where the e-brake stud used to be. Sorry....no luck here. 

Ok, thanks for checking.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 29 Dec. 2018 at 9:18pm
I decided to braze my cracked rear output cap. I had nothing to lose by trying. I ground a V into the cracks, then brazed them. I think it came out pretty good. 



Upon close inspection I found a couple small cracks around the parking brake pivot stud, so we V'd and then brazed them too.



Then I set the cap in the mill and milled the excess braze off within about .005" of the surface.



Then the last step was to sand and lap it completely flat.



It's not perfect, but it's repaired as well as I can do with my limited skills. What do you guys think, will it hold?




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Gil
Date Posted: 29 Dec. 2018 at 9:53pm
Looking good from here Steve.Thumbs Up

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1946 cj2a 59108
1998 Jeep Cherokee 2 doors
2016 Jeep Cherokee TrailHawk


Posted By: cottonwood
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 12:03am
It looks like that will last another 100 thousand


Posted By: Lee MN
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 12:06am
Nice work 👍👍🏽👍

Lee

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               LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys
49 2A
“If you wait, you only get older”
67 M715
American Made Rolling History


Posted By: Bruce W
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 2:52am
  It looks just like mine, and like I said, mine has been running that way for 20+ years. Put it on and run it.  BW

-------------
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 11:35am
Thanks guys. I'd still prefer an undamaged part. But for the time being I'll plan to use it.

Different subject - the pilot bushing inside the mainshaft. According to Novak, these should have an I.D. of .628" when new. Anything over .630" should be replaced. My two shaft's bushings measure .632" and .634". Both shafts are good otherwise. I expect that a new bushing would be undersized and need to be reamed to .628" after installation, a reamer I don't have and really don't want to purchase. Novak's web site says they can install and ream the bushing for a minimal charge. Has anyone used their service? The alternative is to use a local machine shop, but that may be more expensive. How have you guys dealt with this issue?



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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 7:49pm
You mean the bushing for the front output clutch shaft ?
I have a new one available if you need one.
It should not require any additional reaming.


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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

You mean the bushing for the front output clutch shaft ?
I have a new one available if you need one.
It should not require any additional reaming.

Yes, that's it. What is the ID of the bushing you have? I assume it has an interference fit of something like .001" - .0015", so the current ID will reduce a little after its pressed in. My output clutch shaft measures .624". Thanks
Steve


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 8:18pm
It's an OEM  NOS bushing.
I'll need to measure the I.D. and the O.D. when I get back home.


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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

It's an OEM  NOS bushing.
I'll need to measure the I.D. and the O.D. when I get back home.

Ok - thanks.
BTW - do you have any tips for removing the old bushing? I thought I'd try the fill it with grease and a close fitting dowel technique....


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 30 Dec. 2018 at 11:05pm
It fought me, but I got the old bushing outSmile

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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: WeeWilly
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 3:04pm
How did you get it out?

   Jim


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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

How did you get it out?

   Jim

It was in tight! 
Well first I was going to try the hydraulic grease/punch method. But the oil hole in the side made that a non-starter. Then I tried a slide hammer blind bushing puller, but it wouldn't budge. So finally I used a hacksaw blade and made cuts through the bushing at 3 and 6 O'clock. Then with a very small screwdriver ground like a chisel I tapped it in, then was able to break out the small cut section. Then collapsed the remainder and pulled it out.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 3:36pm
One of the four bolts that go through the drum and yoke spun at some point in the past, making a small divot in the ridge inside the drum that is suppose to keep the bolt from spinning. So what's the best way to fix this? What I'm thinking it to use the MIG to add a spot of weld to the bolt head on the two flats adjacent to the flat that faces the ridge. This would essentially lengthen the flat against the ridge and prevent it from turning. What do you guys think?






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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: TERRY
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 4:04pm
Why not MIG the drum?


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BOULDER 48 2A


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by TERRY TERRY wrote:

Why not MIG the drum?

Its cast iron, a much great chance of cracking. It could be done with the right welding rod and pre-heating the drum, then machining then ridge. But beefing up the bolt head seems safer and easier.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: WeeWilly
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 5:53pm
  Thanks ndnchf,  I was just curious. I am always looking for different ways to get a jobs done without buying special tools.  I read about the hydraulic way before and had to try it on  pilot bushings and found it works great but messy.  On bushings in blind holes I try first to see if it is a size that I can use a tap to thread it and use a bolt to pull it out. In your case with the transverse hole  you probably did it the easiest way.  Thanks for sharing,

   Jim


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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 6:04pm
I thought about that too, but didn't have a 5/8" tap.

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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 7:20pm
I had some extra companion flange bolts, so I took one and welded the sides of the head to make it wider so it won't turn. It took a little fitting, and it's not pretty, but it won't turn nowBig smile




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 8:06pm
The shift rods had some corrosion at the outer ends. I put them in the lathe and cleaned them up as well as possible. Would you use them or buy new ones. I'll buy new ones if necessary, but trying not to spend more than needed. I have no illusions about this TC being 100% leak free. But I'd like to keep it to a minimum. 

So what do you say about these rods: Yay or Nay?




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: WeeWilly
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 8:55pm
  Nice repair on the bolt.  Can those pits be polished out?  I would prevent as many leaks as possible even if I had to replace them. Since you got a lathe you could make a sleeve for them. I have made speedi-sleeves for other applications with success and sleeves for those would be a lot easier since you could turn it down and polished them after they were pressed on the shafts. I appreciate your work.

   Jim


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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 8:57pm
Shift rod oil leakage is pretty minimal so I think those rods are acceptable.
Double lip seals may help some.
You can get a complete double seal and gasket set from Matt Fox at QTM.

The new output clutch shaft bushing (A-987) that I have measures about about .628 I.D. and about .755 O.D.

Yeah removing the old bushing is nearly always a chore.

I agree that parking drum was better left alone "as is".



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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: Bruce W
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 9:01pm
  They're not going to leak constantly, only when the shafts are moved. They don't move all the time, only once in a while, when you shift them. If I had better ones, I'd use the better ones. If not, I think I'd put 'em in.    BW

-------------
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 10:16pm
I think I'll use the shafts. I have the double lip seal # for the output yokes, do they make a double lip seal for the shift rods?

Oldtime - your bushing is too large at the OD to work for me. After removing the old bushing, I measured the bore at .7485" - .749".  I think a .006" interference fit would be too much and distort the bushing. The .628" ID is perfect, but that would surely close up after the bushing is pressed in. It would then require a .628" reamer (that I din't have) to get back to the needed ID. But thanks for checking, I appreciate it. I may have to send it to Novak and have them install and ream a bushing.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 10:29pm
Yeah, that's what I'm saying Matt provides the double lip shift seals in his kit but I don't think they have a part # on them. 
I'll check to see If I have any with numbers on them ......

FYI the bushing I have is a split bushing with steel backing.

Diameter of your used output clutch shaft probably lost about .002 of an inch from standard .......




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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 31 Dec. 2018 at 10:46pm
I was just looking at the QTM ebay store and saw his gasket and seal kit, plus other things I need. I've not dealt with him before, but I'll probably order a set. Thanks for the tip

 My output clutch shaft is in excellent shape and measures .624".  A 628" bushing ID would give .002" clearance. I think that would be about right.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Kinnett
Date Posted: 01 Jan. 2019 at 4:30am
I had a local machine shop (Yorktown,  Va) press in my new bushing and then ream it to. 628.  They charged me $20. I took the old one out using a hacksaw blade. I cut a 1/4 section of it out and then the rest of the bushing just slid right out.  It took some patience and persistence but it worked.   


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 02 Jan. 2019 at 12:49am
Does anyone know, or point me to the TC roller bearing and cup numbers? I'd like to order them from Rock Auto. I found the Timken numbers on the NAPA parts list, but they don't show up on a search of the Rock Auto site. Thanks.

Update: belay my last - I found the numbers and placed my order.


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 02 Jan. 2019 at 3:44pm
GROUP 18-04

A-1007----------------D18 front output-----------------------------------------Fafnir 206 K
51575-----------------D18 main output cone (qty 2)-------------------------14131
52883-----------------D18/D20 main output cup (qty 2)---------------------14276

FAFNIR.......MRC.........SKF............TIMKEN..........FM...........BCA
206K..........xxx...........6206............206WB...........206..........206X3




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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 02 Jan. 2019 at 6:44pm
I just got off the phone with QTM.  On Ebay their ad for the D18 gasket/seal kit says they are double lip seals.  But I noticed their website listing does not say that.  So I asked, and it turns out the gasket/seal kit does NOT have the double lip seals.  They are changing their ebay listing.  I ordered the kit anyway, since I need all the other gaskets.  But I'll have to source the double lips seals elsewhere.  They are #473229.  




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 02 Jan. 2019 at 8:48pm
I bought a couple months ago and it contained all double lip seals.
So maybe you'll get lucky ???


-------------
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 02 Jan. 2019 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

I bought a couple months ago and it contained all double lip seals.
So maybe you'll get lucky ???

I hope not. I just ordered the double lip seals elsewhere. If the set does come with double lips after they told me they didn't, I'll be a little miffedOuch


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bob3b
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 3:38pm
NDNCHF, I ordered a kit for mine from Ron Fitzpatrick that contains double lip seals. Not sure if the shifter rod seals are double lip, but I'd be surprised if they leak much as they are kind of high away from the fluid area. Being an Empire, there is only one shifter rod, for high, low, neutral on this transfer case.

I have not taken it off yet, but I am stripping another t case to k-ball a gear out of. If both of mine are good, I can send the rear output cap to you. it's the same one you have. I'll even take that hard to get out seal out of it!

Show me a photo of this bushing you had an issue with? I have not gotten a close look at the case yet, still working on internals.

-------------
1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice!
1949 Jeepster
1947 Empire Model 90
1985 CJ10A
Spen "S" Utility trailer
Kubota l3400


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Bob3b Bob3b wrote:

NDNCHF, I ordered a kit for mine from Ron Fitzpatrick that contains double lip seals. Not sure if the shifter rod seals are double lip, but I'd be surprised if they leak much as they are kind of high away from the fluid area. Being an Empire, there is only one shifter rod, for high, low, neutral on this transfer case.

I have not taken it off yet, but I am stripping another t case to k-ball a gear out of. If both of mine are good, I can send the rear output cap to you. it's the same one you have. I'll even take that hard to get out seal out of it!

Show me a photo of this bushing you had an issue with? I have not gotten a close look at the case yet, still working on internals.

Bob - thanks for the offer of the rear bearing cap.  If its the same one, for a CJ2A with internal expanding brake drum and its not cracked, I'd be very pleased to buy it.  The shift rods I have are pretty good, but have minor pitting.  I may mix up a little JB weld, fill the pits, then sand and polish smooth.  That should help them seal well.

The bushing goes in the end of the output shaft.  I don't have a photo of mine handy, but here's one from the web.  This guy made a stepped driver to seat it.  I'll do the same thing.

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b619/chris150/20160523_144648_zpsmnght3df.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b619/chris150/20160523_144648_zpsmnght3df.jpg


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bob3b
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 5:28pm
I'll have to take look at that bushing! What purpose does it serve?

A guy gave me an engine, trans and tcase. I figured it's the perfect one to part out for my needs and others. Lowenuf is getting some trans parts from it. So really I'd just send you the bearing cap for postage. I pulled the brake assembly off it and gave the backing plate and lever to a kid near me who is working on one and needed that stuff.

Let me inspect my bearing cap and this one and verify they are both good. I'll do that tonight and let you know the results.

-------------
1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice!
1949 Jeepster
1947 Empire Model 90
1985 CJ10A
Spen "S" Utility trailer
Kubota l3400


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Bob3b Bob3b wrote:

I'll have to take look at that bushing! What purpose does it serve?

A guy gave me an engine, trans and tcase. I figured it's the perfect one to part out for my needs and others. Lowenuf is getting some trans parts from it. So really I'd just send you the bearing cap for postage. I pulled the brake assembly off it and gave the backing plate and lever to a kid near me who is working on one and needed that stuff.

Let me inspect my bearing cap and this one and verify they are both good. I'll do that tonight and let you know the results.

That's very generous of you - thanks.  There seems to be at least 3 or 4 different rear bearing caps.  This is the one I need.



The bushing keeps the output clutch shaft aligned.  The output clutch shaft has a ground and polished pilot that fits in the bushing.  When the bushing wears, it can cause mis-alignment.  When new the bushing has a .628" bore.  Up to .630" is acceptable wear according to Novak.  Mine was .634", so it needs to be replaced. 


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bob3b
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 6:17pm
I will inspect these tonight and let you know. Since this xfer case does not have a front output shaft, I'm guessing it does not have that bushing either. From what I've been reading, that is the pilot for the front output shaft, which was removed and blocked off on the Empire version of the Dana 18.

-------------
1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice!
1949 Jeepster
1947 Empire Model 90
1985 CJ10A
Spen "S" Utility trailer
Kubota l3400


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 10:17pm
I stopped by Tractor Supply this afternoon and picked up some 1-3/4"x15 ga (.080") machine bushings to space out the narrower double lip seals. I think they will work perfectly. Here is one laid on top of an old seal to check the fit. The TSC sku # is 1833901.




-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bob3b
Date Posted: 03 Jan. 2019 at 10:42pm
Ndnchf. I have the very same thing. You’re welcome tomot. I will
Pm you

-------------
1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice!
1949 Jeepster
1947 Empire Model 90
1985 CJ10A
Spen "S" Utility trailer
Kubota l3400


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 04 Jan. 2019 at 2:42am
Thanks again Bob, much appreciated!

Tonight I machined a stepped bushing driver. This will be used with an arbor press to seat the pilot bushing in the output shaft to a depth of .560". 




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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 05 Jan. 2019 at 12:34pm
I finished making the bushing driver and the new bushing arrived last night. To minimize distortion when seating it, I'll freeze the bushing and warm the shaft in an oven. Waiting on more parts to arrive.




-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 05 Jan. 2019 at 3:28pm
Well I dove right in this morning and pressed the bushing in. I heated the shaft to 200 degrees in the oven for 30 min, and placed the bushing in the freezer. It was tight, definitely a job for a press. It went well, pressed in to a depth of .560". The big test was the resulting bushing bore size. It measures about .6255", a little tighter than I'd like, but acceptable. The output clutch shaft pilot measures .624". It fits in nicely and spins freely. I'm pretty satisfied with that. I'll be sure to lube it well at assembly.





I also worked on the shift rods. I tried to fill the pits with JB weld, then sand and polish them down smooth in the lathe. I was partially successful. It's better but not perfect. Since the ends of the rods are exposed bare steel, I applied cold gun blue to provide a modicum of rust protection. It probably won't help much, but it doesn't hurt.






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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: outlw21
Date Posted: 06 Jan. 2019 at 3:51am
Great fixes on both parts. When im painting a transfer case, I slide a piece of radiator hose over the shaft section that goes inside the front housing seals to keep the paint off.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 07 Jan. 2019 at 6:05am
My order from QTM arrived. The seals are single lip, a standard crown kit with the tag removed. They also sent the wrong bearing.  For another $20 I ordered double lip seals elsewhere that should be here in a day or two. In hindsight, I should have just ordered the double lip seal kit and the other parts from RFJPOuch

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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 07 Jan. 2019 at 3:42pm
I hear that .
I've also bought TC output seals from Ron F
Sometimes Matt can be hit n' miss just depends on what item it is.




-------------
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 07 Jan. 2019 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

I hear that .
I've also bought TC output seals from Ron F
Sometimes Matt can be hit n' miss just depends on what item it is.

On the plus side, I just called and talked to Matt about returning the wrong bearing for a refund.  No problem. Its all good, I'm still waiting for parts to come in from several sources.  One thing I did not order is a shim pack, maybe I should have.  I have the shims from the two D18s I tore down, so I'm hoping between them I'll have what I need.  But then there is Murphy's law to contend with....Ouch


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: eestes1
Date Posted: 07 Jan. 2019 at 4:19pm
Steve, do you know O'tooles Law? He said Murphy was an optimist!


-------------
Rick Estes


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 07 Jan. 2019 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by eestes1 eestes1 wrote:

Steve, do you know O'tooles Law? He said Murphy was an optimist!

Oh Lordy, I'm in trouble now Wink


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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 08 Jan. 2019 at 12:16am
The double lip seals arrived, so I compared them to the single lips to determine how deep to seat them. The single lips are .500" wide, the double lips are .312" wide. But the actual rubber edge that contacts the yoke are different. I determined that one .0775" thick machine bushing will space the double lip seal about where I want it. 






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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 09 Jan. 2019 at 2:19am
My Rock Auto order came in today. That was my yoke repair sleeves and bearings. I got the front bearing cap assembled - bearing, snap ring, shift rod and fork safety wired, then assembled with the output clutch. Next was assembling the output shaft - gears, bearings, that hidden snap ring and thrust washer. 

Bob has kindly sent me another rear bearing cap, which should arrive tomorrow. It will take a day or so to get it cleaned, prepped and painted. Then the real fun begins; setting the outout shaft endplay with a bunch if shimsSmile

I got the repair sleeves installed on the front yoke and rear companion flange, so those are ready to go.

Time for a cold one....


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bob3b
Date Posted: 09 Jan. 2019 at 5:09pm
I did not order a shim kit either, but tore two transfer cases down so I have about 7 shims of various thicknesses on hand. I started my assembly yesterday.

-------------
1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice!
1949 Jeepster
1947 Empire Model 90
1985 CJ10A
Spen "S" Utility trailer
Kubota l3400


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 09 Jan. 2019 at 5:40pm
After getting my Rock Auto order in yesterday, I made a short video of where I'm at in assembly. 




-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 10 Jan. 2019 at 12:29am
The rear bearing cap that Bob sent arrived tonight. I got it cleaned up and it's lounging in the Evaporust bath now. Tomorrow I should be able to paint it.

I got the front bearing cone and front cap installed tonight. Next will be the rear bearing cap after I get it painted. I may not need it, but I ordered a shim pack. Between that and shims from two TCs, I should be able to come up with a happy combination.




-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 10 Jan. 2019 at 7:54pm
It seems there is supposed to be a gasket between the emergency brake backing plate and the rear bearing cap.  Part #62 "Gasket, rear output" in the parts diagram here:

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/transfer-case-parts/dana-18-parts/" rel="nofollow - http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/transfer-case-parts/dana-18-parts/

But the gasket is not included in the D18 gasket kit.  One vendor I talked to acted surprised when I asked about it, saying he didn't know there was one.  I can't really determine what purpose it serves.  It goes on the rear machined surface of the rear bearing cap.  This is outside and different from the rear seal.  I can't see that it serves any purpose.  I made one from a roll of gasket material, but do I need it?



-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 11 Jan. 2019 at 12:16am
To me it make no difference if the parking drum gasket is installed or not.
It could feasible make it easier to separate those parts at a future date and that's about it.
Putting sealer on the rear bearing cap bolt threads is a good idea....


-------------
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: Unkamonkey
Date Posted: 11 Jan. 2019 at 12:59am
Back in the day the only thing we used was Indian Head shellac. It seals quite well but can glue shims together so that they are almost impossible to get apart. Blue goo is the devils product and they tell you to use around 4X more than you need.

-------------
uncamonkey


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 11 Jan. 2019 at 1:23pm
I'll use the backing plate gasket I made, maybe just put a thin film of grease on it to help prevent the surface of the rear bearing cap from rusting. 

Bob sent me a good rear bearing cap.  I've got it cleaned, de-rusted and painted.  Tonight or tomorrow I'll make a first attempt at shimming it.  I've got two TC's worth of old shims to start with.  I ordered a shim pack, but its not here yet.  I've got spray copper coat for the shims at final assembly. 

 


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Bob3b
Date Posted: 11 Jan. 2019 at 1:32pm
My shimming went pretty well. I'm not sure what is "normal" but I have just over .104 of shims in mine. The instructions said to start with .060 and go from there.
I'm at a standstill for the moment as my supplier sent the wrong intermediate shaft by accident, hopefully I'll have the correct one in a couple days.

-------------
1946 CJ2A #23881
1953 CJ3b, nice!
1949 Jeepster
1947 Empire Model 90
1985 CJ10A
Spen "S" Utility trailer
Kubota l3400


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 12 Jan. 2019 at 5:35pm
Mine seems to be pretty similar at .097" of shims. Here's a video I made of my progress.




-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Floater
Date Posted: 12 Jan. 2019 at 6:14pm
Hi Steve - 

Great job on the videos and documenting your D18 rebuild. I've been doing mine over the past few weeks, and my experience with shimming is about the same as yours - I ended up using 0.090" of shims. The endplay still seems tight to me - I really have to pull on it to deflect my dial gauge, but I'm hoping it'll loosen up a bit. I kept having to "wake up" my main gear shaft with some taps of the dead blow while adjusting endplay. It seems everything I build (like the T-84 I just did) is a bit tight.

I used Perma-tex high tack spray sealer on my shims. When they say high tack they aren't kidding. I'm not using a paper gasket on my rear cap - I have several gasket sets from various sources, and haven't seen a gasket for the end cap in any of them. We'll see if that's good or bad.

Thanks again for doing the videos and write-up. I'll be doing this again on additional D-18s. Good luck with the storm!


-------------
"More time under it than in it..."

M201 Super Jeep
Plattsburgh, NY


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 12:54am
I went back and checked my end play again. I tapped the shaft with a dead blow, then pulled hard, back and forth a few times. I then had almost .014" endplay. Maybe its all the grease on the bearings. So I pulled it back apart and removed a .003" and .0075" shim. Now I have .004" endplay. I'm pleased with that. I suppose I'll gain a thou or two when I spray the copper sealer on the shims. But I think it will be ok.

-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: Floater
Date Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by ndnchf ndnchf wrote:

Maybe its all the grease on the bearings.

I read somewhere NOT to grease the bearings before setting endplay, as that will affect endplay. My main shaft and components are pretty much dry, which may explain some of the tightness I feel. I'd be wondering about how much compression that paper gasket is getting as well, and will it change over time.

Not trying to wreck your Sunday morning, but this is what we novices do, right? 


-------------
"More time under it than in it..."

M201 Super Jeep
Plattsburgh, NY


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 1:53pm
If I recall cirrectly, Rick Stivers mention grease, but said he didnt think it really mattered. It will squish out when the shaft is pushed back. I'm not worried about. Later today I'll do final assembly of the shims and bearing cap.

-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 11:14pm
I got the shims coated with copper spray and everything is assembled from the front bearing cap to the emergency brake. I have .0055" endplay on the output shaft. I'm pleased with that.

But then I noticed a problem - the speedometer driven gear was not moving when I rotate the shaft. WTH?  So I removed the driven gear retainer, pull out the driven gear and look inside. Yep, the drive gear is there. I stick my finger inside and I can move the gear back and forth on the output shaft - maybe 1/8"! This is with the output shaft nut tight on the companion flange. What gives?  The gear is supposed to be clamped tight between the end of the companion flange and the shoulder on the shaft by the bearing - right? It almost seems like it needs a spacer. I swapped speedometer gears with Oldtime. I didn't think to measure the length of the old and new drive gears. So what is wrong here that I have such a gap preventing the drive gear from being clamped tight?

Thanks!


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: athawk11
Date Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 11:22pm
I had a similar issue.  I purchased a new gear.  It was wrong.  There are different combinations of speedometer gears.  

-------------
1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 13 Jan. 2019 at 11:48pm
I got the correct ratio gears for the CJ2A; a 4 tooth drive and 15 tooth driven gear. I'm thinking now that this gear is shorter than what was originally in it. With the drive gear pushed all the way forward, the teeth seem to be in the right place to engage the driven gear.



Here is a view from the output shaft end.



I'm thinking maybe I can make a 1/8" thick spacer ring to make up the difference on the rear of the drive gear. But this is just a guess at how thick it needs to be. I'm hoping someone can shed some light here.
Thanks
Steve


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: athawk11
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 4:11am
"I'm hoping someone can shed some light here."

I thought I did.  

I would double check your combination.  I purchased what the vendor described as the correct gear in their description.  They sent the wrong gear and could never fulfill the order with the correct driven gear.  






-------------
1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 10:41am
Thanks, but these are not repro gears, these are original SW gears with the correct part numbers stamped on them; A-1511 and A-5707. No doubt that these are the correct gears. Something else is not right, just not sure what. What I have looks the the one on the left in your photo. I don't recall what the gear I removed and sent to oldtime looks like but it seems the length difference is the same as shown in your photo. So it likely was that. So what other part changed to account for the different length gear? Different companion flange?

-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:10am
The more I think  about it, I suspect the companion flange may be wrong. This TC came from a later jeep,thus the wrong speedo gears for my use.  I used the companion flange that came with it.  So maybe its a little short.  The splined part measures 1.500" long.



 Can someone check the length of a known CJ2A companion flange spline?  Thanks!
Steve


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 11:41am
Doing some searching I found a thread on the g503 forum that discusses repro companion flanges being short and suggestions to make up or find a spacer.  Sounds awful familiar.  

http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=230243" rel="nofollow - http://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?t=230243


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: athawk11
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 1:35pm
Yes, I remember reading a number of issues with the reproduction companion flanges.  In some instances they cause the case to bind up when seated fully against the speedo gear.

-------------
1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 3:47pm
Steve, measure the OAL of the drive gear I sent you and I'll measure the drive gear you sent me for comparison.
Yes SW drive gears can and do vary somewhat in OAL depending on the series of the gear set.

I'll measure an OEM companion flange while I'm at it.
What was the vintage of the OEM companion flange ?

FYI It was and remains normal practice to use a set of shims when installing all D20 speedo drive gears.

For more info please refer to post (particularly #10 to #14):
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/speedometer-gears-t6257-s10.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/speedometer-gears-t6257-s10.html


-------------
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts



Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Steve, measure the OAL of the drive gear I sent you and I'll measure the drive gear you sent me for comparison.
Yes SW drive gears can and do vary somewhat in OAL depending on the series of the gear set.

I'll measure an OEM companion flange while I'm at it.
What was the vintage of the OEM companion flange ?

FYI It was and remains normal practice to use a set of shims when installing all D20 speedo drive gears.

For more info please refer to post (#14):
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/speedometer-gears-t6257-s10.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/speedometer-gears-t6257-s10.html

Ken - the drive gear is 1.000" long.  I don't know the age of the companion flange, but this is a 1/1-4" intermediate shaft case and the shaft uses the clinch nuts rather than castle nuts.   Late 50s?  You mentioned spacers for use with D20 speedo, where can I find these?  I've been searching the net for spacers with no luck. Thanks.
Steve


-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: ndnchf
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 4:04pm
I should say that I can't measure the gear directly, its inside the rear bearing cap and I don't want to pull it apart yet. To get the the 1.000" measurement, I measured another shaft I have from the shoulder the gear goes up against to the end of the shaft.  Then on the TC, I measured from the end of the shaft to the rear edge of the gear (with the gear pushed all the way forward). Then subtracted that measurement from the other shaft's measured length to get 1.000" gear length.  Assuming the two shafts are the same, it should be within a few thousandths.

-------------
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.


Posted By: oldtime
Date Posted: 14 Jan. 2019 at 4:20pm
I'm certain that the speedometer drive gear I sent you ( same on all early military and Pre 1963 CJ's) measures very near to 1" OAL.
Not certain yet why your companion flange is not pressing up against it when you tighten the ouput shaft nut.




-------------
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts




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