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11" Brake Upgrade - Tips and Lessons Learned?

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ndnchf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 11" Brake Upgrade - Tips and Lessons Learned?
    Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 8:05am
I've been reading a lot of threads on 11" brake upgrades. Many of those threads are old and the photos are dead thanks to Photobucket.  So I thought it would be helpful (at least to me) to start a thread where all you guys who have already done the upgrade can share your tips, tricks, advice and lessons learned.  This will be a big help to those of us who are contemplating the upgrade.  By consolidating this info here, it will be easier to find in the future using the search function.  Photos, part number and sources are encouraged.  I know a lot of you have done this upgrade, please share your experiences so others (ok, at least me Big smile) can benefit.

Off the top of my head, topics that would be helpful would include, but are not limited to:

-Removing studs from hubs, how did you deal with the swaged ring?
-what new studs to use. Left or right threads?
-Brake lines/S - line used or eliminated
-S line bracket/shield removal or modification
-self adjusting vs adjusting brakes - does it really matter?
-brake lining material
-problems encountered, how did you deal with it?
-If you were to do it over again, what would you differently? 

I'm sure there are others, so please chime in.  Share photos if you have them!

Thanks,
Steve


Edited by ndnchf - 28 Feb. 2018 at 8:25am
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 8:46am
removing studs- I used a deep socket to back up the drum to keep from bending it and a BFH to remove the old lugs.
I installed new R/H longer studs to allow my Jackman rims to have proper stud protrusion past the lugnuts.
I did use the stock flex hoses from the mid seventies CJ5 at first then converted to the Ford F350 DRW wheel cylinders to go back to the stock look.
I my busy world it was a no brainer to get the self energizing brakes from a mid 70s CJ5.
Stock 11" CJ5 brake shoes
Simple bolt on installation. retained my stock MC too. Installed in spring of 2000 and other than shoes all is good.
Maybe drill drums to help clean mud etc out of drums after a trip into mud, sandy water.
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


Texan at heart,GA by paycheck

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1947-cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 9:19am

Hey jeeper

Just wanted to say thanks on your help for my 11" brake upgrade.

RICH

1947 cj2a (Toy From Hell)
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67charger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 9:36am
Originally posted by ndnchf ndnchf wrote:

I've been reading a lot of threads on 11" brake upgrades. Many of those threads are old and the photos are dead thanks to Photobucket.  So I thought it would be helpful (at least to me) to start a thread where all you guys who have already done the upgrade can share your tips, tricks, advice and lessons learned.  This will be a big help to those of us who are contemplating the upgrade.  By consolidating this info here, it will be easier to find in the future using the search function.  Photos, part number and sources are encouraged.  I know a lot of you have done this upgrade, please share your experiences so others (ok, at least me Big smile) can benefit.

Off the top of my head, topics that would be helpful would include, but are not limited to:

-Removing studs from hubs, how did you deal with the swaged ring?
Ground the backs off the studs in the drum and knocked them through from drum to hub
-what new studs to use. Left or right threads?
RH
-Brake lines/S - line used or eliminated
I did my 11 inch conversion on the rear with discs in the front
-S line bracket/shield removal or modification
-self adjusting vs adjusting brakes - does it really matter?
Self adjusting/bendix. I like them better but I'm not 100% purist.  Its nice to stop in reverse and have them adjust.
-brake lining material
-problems encountered, how did you deal with it?
Make sure you know where the brakes came from "model year" and make sure you have the backer plates.  Its nice to have all the hardware too so you can compare to new hardware.
-If you were to do it over again, what would you differently? 
Nothing
I'm sure there are others, so please chime in.  Share photos if you have them!

Thanks,
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 12:48pm
I bought my backing plates then went to NAPA and bought everything that goes inside new. My brakes are built as if they were 68 Wagoneer. On the rear brakes I had to go to THE JEEP GUY to find the E Brake Spreader NAPA didn't carry those.
Chug A Lug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

On the rear brakes I had to go to THE JEEP GUY to find the E Brake Spreader NAPA didn't carry those.
 
Well that's just great I've got a set of them + springs in my scrap bin.. I'm still using the T/C drum E- brake. I plugged the E-brake cables in my 11" back-plates..


Edited by RICKG - 28 Feb. 2018 at 1:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 7:16pm
I used 4 front axle 11" brake backing plates with correct size wheel cylinders in rear axle and still use my stock ebrake 'cause it works good and holds 4 wheels from rolling when on a hill when required instead of just the rear wheels. 
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 7:35pm
You will be happy with the 11 inch brakes. My 3b has them and it stops better than my Commando with 10 inch power brakes.
uncamonkey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCtoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 8:29pm
is everybody running 11” brakes with a stock master cylinder?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 9:10pm
Sure, no issues.
I am.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobevans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 10:54pm
I happen to find a complete, rusted out 1974 CJ5. Everything swapped over pretty easily. Getting the studs out was tough and I ruined a couple of 9" drums, but wasn't using them anyhow! In the end, I ground off the backs and punched them through. I eliminated the "s" lines, brackets and shields and just set it up like the '74. I also even used the master cylinder from the '74, but had to do a good bit of work to bolt on the MC bracket from a '66 CJ5. This allowed use of dual cylinder MC while keeping the through the floor pedal arrangement. I think Herm the Overdrive Guy has a kit to do the same thing.

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'56 DJ3A

'79 CJ7

And two of them actually run!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2018 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by NCtoy NCtoy wrote:

is everybody running 11” brakes with a stock master cylinder?

 
I have been running stock mc on my 11" brakes for past 20 years,   it works fine.    However, I am planning this year to change to dual master cylinder.   I get more concerned each year that -> one leak, (anywhere in system),  and then NO brakes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47heater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2018 at 5:04pm
Working on 11" rear brakes. I've removed the wheel studs from the 9" drums. My question is, the old hub was mounted on the outside of the drum. Does the old hub mount on the inside of the new 11" drum?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2018 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

I used 4 front axle 11" brake backing plates with correct size wheel cylinders in rear axle and still use my stock ebrake 'cause it works good and holds 4 wheels from rolling when on a hill when required instead of just the rear wheels. 
 
Even just rear wheel ebrakes will hold the front wheels from rolling when in 4WD.  And braking both rear wheels prevents the potential problem of a driveline brake holding the driveshaft(s) from turning but one tire on ice (from each axle if in 4WD) can spin backward while the vehicle rolls forward.
 
But with ebrakes at the wheels you also lose the gear ratio benefit of a driveline brake, so even bigger wheel brakes might not work as well as a driveline brake, so there's definitely a benefit to keeping the stock ebrake.  I'm not saying either is better or worse than the other, just that there are tradeoffs either way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2018 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by 47heater 47heater wrote:

Working on 11" rear brakes. I've removed the wheel studs from the 9" drums. My question is, the old hub was mounted on the outside of the drum. Does the old hub mount on the inside of the new 11" drum?

I'm pretty sure the hub will be before the drum.  You should be able to press the new studs into the hub and slide the drum over it.  That's how my rear drum brakes are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2018 at 7:34pm
How about some photos of the back side of the front backing plate? I'd like to see how you guys are dealing with the brake lines and old S bracket/shield. Just about everone has a cell phone camera and photos are easy to post here. Heck, everyone likes show n tell Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Cline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2018 at 9:39pm
This is what I used with original master cylinder.
TUBE "Z" FRONT WHEEL CYLINDER TO FRAME HOSE, 2 REQD.
LATE CJ-5/6 WITH FRONT BRAKE HOSE SUPPORT ON KING PIN CAP.
Here is a good link: http://cj3b.info/Tech/Brakes11inch.html



Edited by Rick Cline - 01 Mar. 2018 at 9:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shulls1stcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar. 2018 at 12:48am
Ok so here is a list everything i used to swap my brakes:
Backing plates off ford bronco front for all 4 corners
Brakes : 1968-72 ford bronco 11"
PART #
282r       brake shoes front & rear
33206    front wheel cyl  1 1/8" bore
33207    front Wheel cyl 
H2540    brake adjuster front & rear
H2541    Brake adjuster  front & rear
H7137    spring kit front & rear
8753       brake drum front and rear off a 1970 jeep j pickup 
33636     Rear wheel cyl 1" bore 1978 ford ltd 11" brakes. 
610-032.1 Wheel studs  dorman brand
I used a 5/8 Bosch hb063 bi metal hole to remove swedge on wheel studs, I had to use 2 qty to get thru 2 wheels.
I used s brake lines with guards just had to carefully bend lines to work.
I will try to post some pictures in the next few days. Hope this helps some one  
Steve
Ca.




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