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Building a Universal Modified

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oldtime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2017 at 11:06pm
Yeah I caught that John. 
How you liking them so far now that  they are installed ?
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fltfndr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb. 2017 at 10:05pm
Really happy with them.  Jeep rides very smoothly, great articulation.  Only downside is a perceived tendency to lean more in tight turns at moderate speeds.   May be able to so;ve with different shocks or maybe a sway bar.  All in all it is probably due to a softer suspension than what I was used to.

Fltfndr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 3:01am
Transfer case upgrade time:

I got the intermediate gear retrofit kit from Advance Adapeters:

http://www.advanceadapters.com/categories/intermediate-gear-kits/159/



Most of you know what this is, but for those who don't, it replaces the intermediate shaft and needle bearings with tapered bearings like a front wheel hub.

The kit is pretty straight forward other than you have to counter bore your intermediate gear for the outer races:



This can be done with a carbide boring tool. The first .050 is hard but once you get through that, it is easier to cut.



... the castle nut is used to set the preload.

A little back story. Ever since I went to the teraflex gears, low range has been significantly noisy, especially when trying to drive faster in 2nd or 3rd gear. I expected it to make more noise since the gear ratio is lower but last month in Moab I felt like the whine was unacceptable and I was concerned that the gears were wearing out. This week I pulled the transfer case and had a look. Well, the gears all look good and the intermediate shaft and needle bearings all look good.... I guess these gears are just loud. .... Anywho, I wanted to clean up the noise so I decided to try the tapered bearing kit:



First analysis:
It is noticeably more quiet in low-range now. I think it is actually acceptable now. I haven't driven it enough to form a full opinion yet. I need to put the canopy back on and listen to them since just removing the canvas reduces lots of noise..... but again, definitely much more quiet.

When I was pulling the TC, I realized that my rear diff u-joint was missing all the needle bearings in two cups!..... I wonder if that had something to do with the new vibrations I've picked up after Moab?
.... All back together now. Did a little 70 mph. All is good ready for the reunion! Here are the before and after pics:

Old needle bearing intermediate shaft:



.... new AA taper bearing intermediate shaft:



... so now I can drive to work safely! Can you believe it? My wife thinks I was just screwing around all day on my ... "hobby".   

Thx 4 reading.

Edited by jpet - 14 May 2017 at 3:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flatfender Ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 3:22am
I like the after pic much better, l can SEE how quiet the new bearings are.
Ha ha
Always great to see bam bam.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 4:07am
I guess I'm partially deaf.  I can't hear the difference.  Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 4:19am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Can you believe it? My wife thinks I was just screwing around all day on my ... "hobby".


Not surprised. She should know you as well as anyone.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 4:24am
I just did the same conversion on my MB.  My low range was really noisy at FCT and this mod cleared it up.  I had a local shop cut the gear - that was the most expensive part of the job.
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
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teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 2:49pm
When I did the one in my old '47 Advance Adapters sold the whole thing gear and all.

I couldn't get my gear cut locally......nobody wanted to fool with it due to the hardness factor. Just saying this for those that want to go that route.....make sure you can find a shop willing to do it before you buy the 'gearless' kit.

Haven't looked lately to see if AA still sells the whole shebang.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 3:11pm
I don't think they do.  Most of the local shops I tried, weren't interested.  I eventually found a precision grinding business that happily did it, but the charge was about $350.  That said - hopefully the modified intermediate gear will outlive me and I don't plan on checking out anytime soon.
 
Wish I had Jeff's metalworking skills!  You do some nice work, Jeff.
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
1950 cj3a
M-100 x2
teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 3:14pm
Jeff are those new tires on Bam Bam?  I noticed the combat rims are gone.
 
Is Bam Bam coming to Heuston Woods next month for the jeep rally?
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
1950 cj3a
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teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 7:08pm
As Alan said, AA does not offer the modified intermediate gear anymore. Mine is a teraflex anyway so it doesn't matter. I did not have time to do the counter bores so I also tried to farm it out and went through that same hastle. Once they see how hard it is on the outside, they immediately don't even want to mess with it even though I assured them it can be done .... so one of the machinists at work did it for me. Like I said, the outer .050 is 40-50 Rockwell after that it is still hard but not rock hard. I assure you this can be machined with a carbide tool.

Originally posted by tamnalan tamnalan wrote:


Jeff are those new tires on Bam Bam?  I noticed the combat rims are gone.
Man you don't miss nothin. The front tires are still 750-16 but they are new. I had to ditch the combats because they are just too weak. My combats are MDJuan and the metal is not near as strong as the originals. the inside hole and lug holes are all distorted. Several lip edges are bent on all 4. The ones in the pics are KH 16 x 5.
Quote ....Is Bam Bam coming to Heuston Woods next month for the jeep rally?
I will be in England at a wedding that week.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
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"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 3:56pm
Jeff thats an interesting and timely update on Bam Bam.
Glad to hear your positive results with this D20 Tera Low combination . 

I'm also about to install new Tera 3.15 gears in a D20 with the AA taper bearing kit.
In fact my gears are at the machine shop right now. 
I sent mine down to Mike Ruffin from ECJ5. 
He is willing to cut these gears to accept taper cups and also do the standard 2.46 Dana gears. 

Most people are leary of cutting into a brand new set of Tera Flex gears. 
Too bad Tera Flex does not already sell them set up for the taper cups.

I also plan to install the Tapered Tera Low combo into my D18 with special O.D. bowl gear.



Edited by oldtime - 15 May 2017 at 3:59pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 4:08pm
Well after wheeling around a little bit yesterday, I will say that the teraflex gears still start singing a bit when you are trying to get some speed, but the tapered bearing kit is an improvement over what I had ... when it comes to noise anyway.  Just pulling the pan and seeing that my gears are in good shape even with all that whining makes me feel much better.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 4:22pm
Yeah those straight cut large diameter gears are going to put out some noise no matter what you do.
That's just the nature of straight cut gears.
I think the noise reduction you achieved is directly related to increased longevity of the gear set., 
because the gears are now being kept to more precise alignment.
The standard intermediate shaft / bearing configuration allows the gear set to twist around too much when under load.


Edited by oldtime - 15 May 2017 at 4:24pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 10:36pm
Where I really notice the improvement is when I lift off the gas at highway speed.  My drivetrain is much quieter in that transition.  That intermediate gear is a heavy chunk of spinning metal and I used to get a lot of vibration across the thrust transitions.  I also had a lot of gear noise when in low range - it's quiet now.  The normal whine at highway speed is still there.
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
1950 cj3a
M-100 x2
teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 12:11am
Originally posted by tamnalan tamnalan wrote:


Where I really notice the improvement is when I lift off the gas at highway speed.  My drivetrain is much quieter in that transition.  That intermediate gear is a heavy chunk of spinning metal and I used to get a lot of vibration across the thrust transitions. ....
Yup. My TC is a Dana 20 (Direct rear output), so it does not have that characteristic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 1:02am
Whatttttt.......I thought it was stock??   




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 2:03am
... that's right. its a stock, dana 20 transfer .... um ... "case"
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
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"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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