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Building a Universal Modified

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tamnalan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 1:47pm
Oh - I see another advantage of the D20 then - smoother at highway speed!
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
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teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 3:58pm
Advantage:
Smoother on highway
Front wheel drive option
More clearance on rear drive shaft.
Stronger case

Disadvantage:
Sharper rear drive shaft angle
No overdrive option
Centered rear pumpkin (less clearance)
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 11:53pm
The advantages seem to far outweigh the disadvantages, at least in the way you set Bam Bam up.  It is really sweet, Jeff!  It goes anywhere at any speed and looks really cool on the trip!
Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD"
1943 MB - "Lt Bob"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 1:10am
I'm still debating the Tera Low Dana 18 plus 25% O.D. vs Tera Low Dana 20 (both with AA taper shaft kits) 
In my mind I can't decide which is supreme so I'm building both. 
Yes in many ways they are nearly the same yet in other ways quite different.
They cannot be compared without considering different axle designs and they basically require different final drive ratios. 
So the complete drive train system really needs to be scrutinized for synchronicity.

Yes the Dana 20 was designed and aptly called the silent type transfer case but their is much more to it than mere audible difference.
For one thing Dana had initially attempted to build the silent type transfer case way back in 1954.
They initially tried to silence it by re-cutting the gears to a steeper pitch.
That's exactly why they went from the 2.43 ratio transfer case to the 2.46 ratio case in 1954-1/2.
At that time they wisely increased the intermediate shaft diameter. 
But somehow use of tapered bearings never crossed their minds.
They were not successful in building the silent type transfer case until 1962.

Mainly to reduce noise they changed the rear output to a direct drive engagement.
That alone bypasses all the extra gears when operating in 2 WD high.
Also to achieve their goal, they reduced the ratio from 2.46 down to 2.03. 
Lower ratios require manufacture of larger gears  which means more noise. 
And that's exactly what the Tera Low and Jack O'Brien gear sets are up against concerning noise.



Edited by oldtime - 17 May 2017 at 1:15am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2017 at 7:06pm
.... The project ain't over yet.  I'm pretty excited about what Brown Santa brought me today:



... Going to 4.56 gears.  Hopefully between surgeries and work, I'll be able to get these in by the weekend and report the news. .....  It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tumbleweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2017 at 7:15pm
What did you have previously on the gears? I believe mine are 5:38.
Is the move to 4:56, to go a little faster and reduce RPM?
 
Surgeries? Hope nothing serious........
 
 
49 CJ3A - Smokey
53 Willys Wagon - Wylie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tumbleweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2017 at 7:17pm
Ooops, sorry I didn't read up the post chain.........
 
Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2017 at 7:27pm
Currently I'm running 3.73s  This will put my basement at 94:1, not that I was unsatisfied with 77:1.  I'm trying to get my middle gears lower so I can follow a CJ2A easier going down hill, especially on the hard road.  With this gear set, I hope to be able to leave the transfer case in hi range more often.

Nothing serious.  Having the first of two cataracts removed.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Night0wl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct. 2017 at 1:03am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

I'm pretty excited about what Brown Santa brought me today:
 .....  It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas

Awesome Jeff!  
Night0wl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct. 2017 at 3:18am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Nothing serious.  Having the first of two cataracts removed.


Hope it goes/went well.
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct. 2017 at 11:28pm
Hope all goes well!....... I, We expect a full video tutorial on gear swap and settup

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 3:30am
Update:
1st, I had my first cataract removed and it went VERY well.  The next morning I was able to read the 20/20 line for the first ever.  Now I will be able to see where Hawkeye is at. ..... I'm having my second eye done this coming Thursday.

2nd, got the gears in.  I'm not going to do a huge explanation on the setup since the topic is covered extensively on the internet machine.  I did make a few tools:



Yoke wrench:


I also made this contraption for measuring pinion depth:



... it has two journal sizes, so it can do D44 or D30.  The ones you buy use a dial indicator to measure depth.  I just used gauge blocks and shims:



... anywho, I set my pinion to the depth that etched on the face:

  
To set the backlash, I made a set of dummy bearings that matched the height of the bearing and race:

 
... next I added shims on each side till the carrier had an interference that required a hammer and aluminum drift to seat the bearings.  This gave me my preload.  After that, I removed a .004 shim so that I could pull the carrier in and out by hand with zero slop.  Then I distributed the shims, side to side, to get the proper backlash:



.... once I got the backlash set, I checked the pattern with the yellow paint stuff, (no pics).  Then, I pulled it all out, added .002 shim to each bearing side, pressed on the new bearings, and installed. 

Sounds pretty simple but I had to pull the carrier in and out several times and to be honest, next time I might just hire it out.  I'm not saying I did it the right way.  I'm just saying, this is what I did.  Like I said earlier, there is lots of info on the net.

Analysis:

The motor noise level on the hi-way has gone up as I new it would.  I'm going to look for a quieter muffler.  Seems to sound ok at 60 but I'm hoping to do better.

Here is a video showing the low crawl capability:


For clarity I'm calling my gears in my 4 speed, granny, 1,2,3

Granny low is slowwwww.  but the main reason for this change is to get 1, 2, and 3 gears lower so that my ground speed is closer to Stan and Wade.  In the video you can see 1st gear low. (51:1).  Looks and feels pretty good to me.  

.... anywho, I'll try this out at Badlands in a couple weeks and see what I think.  Jury is still out.  If I don't like it, I might try 4.27:1 ..... we shall see.  Thanks for reading.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
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"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 3:47am
I guess the slow drag is a total waste of time for me now.

You work fast.
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 3:48am
Interesting! , so did you have to go with a different E locker as well ?..... Glad your surgery was a success!

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 3:55am
Originally posted by Lee (MN) Lee (MN) wrote:

Interesting! , so did you have to go with a different E locker as well ?.....  
No I was able to buy a "thick" gear for my D44.  The break for the the d30 is 3.73 or numerically higher so I was good on that one.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 3:58am
Perfect!, nice work, as usual, LOL

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 12:58pm
Good job Jeff! Glad your eyes are doing well. 

What caused the driveshaft to rub your crossmember so hard? John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct. 2017 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Oilleaker1 Oilleaker1 wrote:

.....What caused the driveshaft to rub your crossmember so hard? John
That's self adjusting clearance
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