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Colorado Fall Color Tours 2017!! - Event Date: 17 Sep. 2017 - 23 Sep. 2017

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Bob W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr. 2017 at 7:27pm
Is the motor wired with the proper voltage?
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Joe Friday View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 8:36am
Good point Bob. Meanwhile I'll keep an eye out for a new one in the summit closeout sale area.
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m38mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 5:46pm
Bob, that's my one other concern.  I opened the top of the motor to follow the leads into it.  There are 7 wires inside the motor.  None of them are labeled so I'm not sure which wire is what.  There is a wiring diagram inside the motor that shows what connections should be made for 220v.  As far as I can tell it appears to be wired correctly for 220v.  I would think that if it was wired incorrectly then the motor would act up as soon as I powered it up.  It's not doing that.  In fact it's running the pump just fine for a little bit before the pump begins to choke.  And when I open the drain valve with the motor running it spins right up again and pumps the fluid like it should.  That's what makes me think the problem is not in the motor, that it's in the pump or valves.  I've been all through the valves and they are clean, with good springs, and no defects in the ball or seat.  That's what's making me think the problem may be in the pump itself.  But I don't have any history with hydraulic pumps so I don't know. 

It has a pressure relief valve that dumps fluid into the reservoir from the main channel leading to the outlet pipe.  That valve is clean and has a strong spring.  So does the outlet valve.  I'm going to run a no-pressure test of the unit.  I'm going to divert the hose from the lift arms back into the reservoir.  This way there will be no back pressure from the lift arms to affect the pump.  I'll see how long the pump works in this new set up.  And I'll see if the pump fails to pump after a few seconds like it does when it's connected to the lift arms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 5:51pm
I think you said that you bought two lifts. If the other is the same type etc. Maybe swap out the pump and items, one at a time?.
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eestes1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eestes1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 6:18pm
I know i dont have to say this, but i am going to anyway. Be careful! My son saw his boss killed under a lift.
Rick Estes
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Lee (MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee (MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 7:20pm
Mike, is there any data tags on the pump unit identifying operating pressure ?. Letting the fluid circulate is a good idea as it may be air locked, also if you could install a gage in the line (rated 2x operating pressure). If you do not have a gage I will send you one.

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m38mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 8:33pm
John, I have two posts, but it's one lift.  Just one.  Just trying to make the one work.

Rick, I'm trying to not get killed, at least to wait for another 20-30 years.

Lee, a gauge would be a good idea, but there is no tag, or info in the operation/maintenance manual that tells me what kind of pressure is created.  If you have a gauge I'd be glad to use it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 8:40pm
Mike, x2 on what Lee said, possible air in system. Have you tried bleeding? I have never had to bleed a hoist but the fact it has just been reinstalled there is a good  chance there is air in the system. A quick google search says to raise hoist about 12" and open bleeder screw, once air purge has stopped, tighten bleeder and lower to ground. Repeat until all air is purged.
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Lee (MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee (MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr. 2017 at 11:45pm
Mike I have no working knowledge of Automotive hoists, but the ones I have seen are simple pump/valve/cylinder setups most likely in the 2500 psi range, I can send you a 5000 psi gage, if you can tell me what type of fittings are on the hose, NPT/JIC or post a photo of the hose end I will also send an adapter (if needed) to install the gage. I would also recommend as Per Red Willys instructions to bleed the system first, air in the system must be purged.

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Katiedid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katiedid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 8:46am
Mike, if you can't get this pump to work, Brett suggests surpluscenter.com.  He found a power pack for $500, it's a good source for hydraulic parts. 

Could the inside of a hose be failing and collapsing?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 12:49pm
Glen,  purging the air in the cylinders helps to balance the hydraulic lift of both cylinders, but does nothing for getting air out of the pump.  The pump draws fluid from the reservoir in a one-way stream that pushes fluid into the plumbing that leads to the cylinders in each lift tower.  When I open the drain valve to lower the lift arms, the fluid bypasses the pump and goes from the hard pipes directly into the reservoir.  In this design, air cannot get trapped in the pump because it is always filling itself with fluid from the reservoir.  And I've kept the reservoir full so the pump could not suck air. 

Lee, all the plumbing in this lift is 1/4 inch NPT.  If you have something that will work with 1/4" NPT then I can make it work. 

Kate, The one flex hose in the system looks good.  And it's downstream of the pump so I don't think that is the problem.  I may go look at surpluscenter.com just to see if they have any units like mine.  Thanks for the tip. 

Hhmmm, a thought just occured to me.  I wonder if I have something blocking the line into the cylinders??   I better take my plumbing apart to inspect that too.  It was open for a while when the previous owner had it sitting in his barn before I bought it.  A beetle could have crawled in there and be causing my problem.  I had not considered that possibility before. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 1:26pm
I was thinking more along the lines of air trapped in the lines. If that is the case you are compressing the air instead of a the non compressible fluid doing the lifting or as Lee stated an air block. If you had air in the reservoir / pump you should hear it cavitating. Not knowing what brand your hoist is I am guessing, but looking at my shop hoist there are steel lines with fittings at a higher point than the reservoir. If have a similar set up, try cracking one open when it stalls and see if air escapes. Open slowly as you don't want high pressure oil shooting out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 6:18pm
After re-reading, you said it did go all the way up. Then you let it down, tried again and it stalled or stopped and the pump sounded like it was pulling down.  Then when you opened the drain down valve with the motor running, it pickup up speed and ran normal.  

Is there a pump draw tube in the reservoir that is getting the pickup end or screen blocked?

Is there something in the lift channel of the posts/towers that might block or stop the cylinder? 

Cable off a pulley?
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Lee (MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee (MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 7:00pm
Mike, I have a 5000 psi gage with a 1/4" NPT stem I will send you.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 9:44pm
Glen, when I hook the whole system back up I'll bleed it out again like you suggest.  I had done that when I first filled it all up.  It didn't seem to help when I first ran into this problem.  But I do need to get the air out of both cylinders. 

John, There is nothing in the reservoir that would plug up the screen.  I've cleaned the reservoir twice and the only thing in there is ATF.  There is nothing that is blocking the cylinders from raising on the outside.  My next step is to take the plumbing apart to make sure its all clean on the inside.  The cables are all on pulleys and working as they should. 

Thanks Lee.  That will help me learn what my system is doing. 

I ran the motor and pump this afternoon in a closed loop that didn't have any back pressure.  I took the pump discharge hose and had it discharge back into the reservoir.  I ran it like that for several minutes, shut it down, then ran it again for several minutes.  The motor ran at full speed and the pump was pumping ATF just the way it's supposed to.  I'm encouraged that it ran well. It normally only takes about 30 seconds to raise the lift arms to the highest level.  I ran the pump long enough to raise the lift many times over.  So now I'm looking at something in the plumbing that may be blocking the pipe and causing back pressure.  That's tomorrow's project. 
M38Mike
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Lee (MN) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee (MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr. 2017 at 11:06pm
Mike, the gage is in the mail, you should see it Tuesday!. How bout a picture of the pump/valve/cylinders/plumbing that would help. Or what brand is the hoist, perhaps there is a schematic on the web someplace ?.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mriceflinter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr. 2017 at 9:50am
Mike, By running it like you said I think you have eliminated the problem being in the pump or the suction side to the reservoir. I am wondering if there is a check valve in the discharge that is put in backwards. I am thinking it would be in the vertical position and would not have a spring. When the flow gets fast enough it would check off the flow and act as you say it is. If the flow is slow enough the valve would stay open and allow it to operate OK. We ran into a similar problem at the power plant I worked at before retirement. If you can post pics it may help us to figure out what is wrong. Good luck. Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr. 2017 at 10:46am
Mike, does it sound like the pump dead heads when you are operating it? You know what I mean, reaching max pressure? If so how quickly into the run time does it do this?
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