Dana 41 rebuild |
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Kenny578
Member Joined: 13 Oct. 2016 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Posted: 16 May 2017 at 8:16pm |
Hello I am rebuilding my dana 41 but ran into a few problems. After looking for over a year I finally got a new ring and pinion for my axle that is in decent condition there are some rust pivots on the side of the teeth but the teeth are not chipped or cracked so its what I have to work with. I bought a rebuild kit with new axle shafts but I didn't realize until I started putting the axle together and looking up specs that I need a pinion depth tool to set the pinion depth and a tool to measure the back lash. From what I read they no longer make the tool I need and I couldn't find anything I could use, I never rebuilt an axle before so I am learning as I go. I had no trouble rebuilding the transmission or transfer case but the axles have been a nightmare for over a year now between finding parts for them and the tools to work on them. I'm hoping someone can give me a link to a tool that would work for me.
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pjensen641
Member Joined: 21 June 2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 690 |
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Hello Kenny-
The tool in the service manual is usually not used when the common person rebuilds the axle. What that tool does is allow you to measure the amount of shims you need directly and makes it much easier on getting it right the first time. In contrast, the common shade tree guy just records the number of shims found under the inner pinion race when he takes it apart. This give a starting point for when the reassembly is done. From there is is a guess and check operation. You have to start with the initial shim stack, and partially assemble the R&P so that you can measure backlash and gear mesh pattern. From there, you use any number of common guides which show you how to "read" the mesh pattern. The mesh pattern will tell you if the pinion and differential carrier are in the right place, or if you need to move one or the other. All this can be done with no special tools outside of a dial indicator and magnetic base, plus a home built too to hold the pinion yoke for torquing. It is, however, maddeningly slow work. I think I had mine together and apart 10 times before getting it right. On a scale of 1 to 5 in terms of difficulty, I rate the T90 a 3 and the axle a 5. This is one operation that you either have to really want to learn, or you may find it more worth your while to take it to a shop that specializes in gear set-ups and just pay to have it done. If you do try to tackle it yourself, I believe 20 thousandths of shim is a decent starting point under the inner pinion race. There are a lot of very knowledgeable guys on this board that might have even better experience to share.
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Kenny578
Member Joined: 13 Oct. 2016 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Thank you, that cleared up a lot I didn't know and I may give it a try myself.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3190 |
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Getting a good pattern on a used set of gears would be a 6 on the "pjensen641 scale of difficulty". The link he gives you is a good one to follow, but pay particular attention to the sidebar about setting up used ring and pinion gearsets. Unless you have taken the gearset out of the housing that you are using AND kept all of the shim packs intact so that their measurements can be used in the rebuild, the whole job will be on of trial and error using the guide to get "closer" to an acceptable pattern each time.(This would only occur when you are only changing out the bearings in an axle, and 99 time out of a 100 you could always go back with the same shim setup in that case.)
Several things to remember: Attempt to match the old wear pattern that exists on the old gear set. Like the guide suggests, paying attention to the coast side of the used gearset will give you a good guide to an acceptable pattern. If you do not use the original pattern that is worn into the drive side of the ring gear, you run the risk of having a noisy setup. Always use NEW bearings. When pulling the differential bearings from the carrier be very careful not to damage the bearing with the puller that you have chosen to use. Remember that small changes in pinion depth (the shims under the inner bearing cup) will make large differences in the pattern. When setting up the gearing leave the pinion seal out of the setup until you are satisfied with the gear pattern that you have and the pinion preload (the shims between the shoulder on the pinion and the outer pinion bearing cone) is properly set. The seal goes in the very last thing and it will not appreciably change the preload that you have achieved. Remember that the differential carrier bearings also have to have a preload. You may have to spread the housing slightly to achieve this, but often the side cups can be driven in with a dead blow hammer without the aid of a case spreader. IF YOU ARE USING A CASE SPREADER, DON'T SPREAD THE CASE MORE THAN .015" ( Measured from one side of the case to the other with a dial indicator). DO NOT LEAVE THE SPREADER ON THE CASE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. The gear lash of the finished setup will probably be a little more than a new gearset. Acceptable gear lash on a new set of gears is usually some where in the range of .005" to .008", but a used gearset will probably operate more in the range of .008" to .012". Don't make the mistake of trying to "tighten up" the lash, it is more than likely to cause noise and premature wear. Last of all, REMAIN PATIENT, because unless you are extremely lucky, its going to take several attempts to get a satisfactory pattern. Even experienced driveline mechanics sometimes have difficulties with a used gearset...it is the nature of the beast... Good luck, and if you have questions, let us know...pictures of your pattern would probably help... |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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pjensen641
Member Joined: 21 June 2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 690 |
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^^^^
Very good points as well. I recall my backlash was 0.010+ and my best pattern was toe side biased if I recall correctly. Refer to the bottom center of the "Acceptable patterns" area for what min sorta looked like. 3000 nice quiet miles later, and I would say that it works just fine. I also advise against adding the huge amount of carrier preload that the service manual calls out. I tried it and had my bearings so tight that I damaged the first set of carrier cups when driving them in without a case spreader. Once in, they had excessive drag. I backed the preload off a bit and the cups went in with much less angle.
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Rick G
Member Joined: 17 May 2015 Location: Amarillo, TX Status: Offline Points: 1467 |
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I'm a novice when it comes to differentials, but I did it successfully after research and some tips here on the forum. You can, too. Here's my thread on this same topic.
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/d41-pinion-depth_topic39808.html?KW=D41+pinion+depth I didn't have the special tool either, but just remember that pinion depth measurements are usually given from the axle (or carrier) centerline to the face or button of the pinion. This measurement can be made with a straight edge across the carrier bearing flats (the flats where the bearing caps go) and a dial caliper. Just remember to add or subtract shims based upon the etching on the button of the pinion. I've noted the pinion depth measurement in the referenced thread. This is not a hard task, but very tedious and time consuming. Good advice given above by pjensen and SE Kansas, especially about setting up mesh patterns on used gears and the backlash settings. I could not get an "acceptable " pattern according to the examples, but I got close and my rear end is quiet for the first time in years. |
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LesBerg
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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If I may ask a pertinent used gear pattern question?
The used gearset I just installed in my front D25 had a very heel-ward coast wear pattern - centered about 1/3 in from the heel. Everything I read said to try to set it up with the coast pattern about 1/3 in from the toe. Is the coast wear pattern I'm seeing on my gearset because it was a front axle, a poor set-up, or possibly something else? I know it could be noisy, but I don't want the pattern to pull way out to the heel under load. Would it have been smarter to match the original pattern?
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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My goal, when setting-up used gears, has always been to try to match the wear pattern as closely as possible. It's darn hard to get it just right, because that pattern was worn in with worn bearings. A "textbook" pattern, I would think, would be even harder to achieve. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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LesBerg
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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good to know, thanks! I'll be hunting for a replacement D41 5.38 set, probably soon...
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3190 |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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