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Dauntless 225 - pushrods - Comp cam |
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JeepFever 
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 Topic: Dauntless 225 - pushrods - Comp camPosted: 13 Mar. 2018 at 3:57am |
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Overhauling my '68 Dauntless 225 hit an unexpected speed bump, but hopefully everything works now.
A little background -> a dozen years ago, I bought the proverbial "it ran great when I pulled it" engine. Also claimed to be low mileage. I do believe the low-mileage part, because a lot of the engine seems to have little wear, BUT - > the cam was SHOT. Two of the lobes were worn away, a couple bent pushrods etc. . . . So much for disassembly, cleaning, and putting back together.  I thought the easiest choice would be a near-stock cam kit from Comp cams, including the 63-234-4 cam, lifters, springs, seals, timing chain set. My thought was everything was designed together. To my dismay, after assembly, there was "lash" in the valve train. Instead of the lifters having "preload", the pushrods were too short and the rockers would move up and down between .003 and .008 as measured by dial indicator.  I called Comp cams to see if this would be expected. I did not change anything, except their cam and lifters, ( same valves, same heads, same rocker-arms, etc.) . . after somewhat lengthy discussion, the tech did FINALLY say that the base-circle diameter of their cam was smaller than stock. So that explained the problem. (I guess I could have checked this myself, but did not want to remove the cam at this point). After doing some reading, I decided to try some Sealed Power RP3173 pushrods, that appeared to be slightly longer, After receiving them, I was a little disappointed that they did not quite fix the problem. Now there was .000 to .003 lash. (these pushrods were only approx. .005 longer) There appears to be some variations on how suppliers measure pushrods. Edited by JeepFever - 14 Mar. 2018 at 5:07pm |
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JeepFever
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Posted: 13 Mar. 2018 at 4:24am |
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The proper thing to do at this point would probably have been to order some pushrods .020 longer than the Sealed power ones, or to get some adjustable ones. I decided to go the "bubba" route though. I removed .020 from the rocker arm pedestals. There is a pocket that oil flows thru at the bottom, and all of the pedestals measured near .080. Lacking sophisticated equipment -> I sanded them down to .065 on a belt sander, then flat-filed them to .060. This is view of the pocket after:  The rocker-arm pedestal oil holes did not line up very well with head. (I used some hi-tech marking compound -> engine sludge,  ) I was concerned that by reducing the depth of oil pockets, I may be limiting flow (especially with the mis-alignment) . . so I did some "porting" with a Dremel  |
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JeepFever
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Posted: 13 Mar. 2018 at 4:30am |
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After assembling with the shortened rocker pedestals, all of the lifters had some preload. I did not measure, but the plungers had, what looked like, -> approx. .020 clearance from the retaining "springs".
I imagine this makes no sense to anyone casually reading this thread, but maybe some day, someone is searching, and this make perfect sense.
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ndnchf
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Posted: 13 Mar. 2018 at 11:01am |
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Makes sense to me - good thinking Ron! BTW, I have a surface grinder if you need it.
Edited by ndnchf - 13 Mar. 2018 at 11:05am |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 5:02am |
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Glad to hear it made some sense.
 I did not want to confuse anything above by mentioning ALL my adventures. I have a spare (rusted internally) 225 that I could potentially rob parts from. In a quick look, the pushrods of this engine looked to be in better condition, so I used many of them. After installing the rocker-arms, there was EXTREME lash on some of the cylinders. I was baffled for a while, until I figured out that the pushrods from the spare motor were shorter. It turns out that my spare motor is a '64, the only year of shorter pushrods.  . . . end-to-end the '64 rods measure 8.6", the later ones are 8.7 |
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oldtime
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 2:43pm |
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I have a couple Dauntless 225's that I fully rebuilt.
One is a 1966 vintage converted from original single barrel to a dual bore manifold and Rochester 2G. The other is a completely stock standard 1970 vintage. (excepting the .030 overbore) Both rebuilt using OEM parts and re-used the original push rods that were in them. Zero fitment problems using 100% GM and NOS Jeep parts. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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mbullism
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 3:35pm |
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It made sense here, kudos for "making it comply"
...I've only ever swapped cams in a 225 once. It was a mild cam made by Crane. No issues. (not that it helps, but for the people from the future)
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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JeepFever
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 4:49pm |
You offered a NOS cam.
 I thought it would be easier to get a kit of matched parts. None of the retailers, or CompCam web site mentioned needing different pushrods. I probably did not look hard enough, but never saw a base circle dimension for the cam, to compare to stock one. |
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JeepFever
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 4:52pm |
Part of the reason for this thread was for future searchers. I did a lot of searching when I first discovered the short pushrods, and did not find much info. |
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WeeWilly
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 5:35pm |
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When I rebuilt a 1966 Buick 225 V6 for my jeep the problem was opposite with the valve stems being to long after a valve grind. The machinist told me I would have to get adjustable rocker arms. Instead I used brass shims under the pedestals to make up the difference making sure the oil passage way was open in the shim. That was back in the mid 1970s and that engine is still running. I like those old engines and wanted to add a little help to the subject.
Jim |
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47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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JeepFever
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 11:53pm |
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When I was trying to figure out what was going on, I read several posts about guys finding shims under the pedestals.
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Buickbug
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Posted: 11 Feb. 2021 at 10:51pm |
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I could use some 225 rods (and good pistons) If you can help please reply to sixbynine@usa.com
Greg
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Metcalf
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Posted: 12 Feb. 2021 at 3:48pm |
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I lucked out on mine because of the decked heads. Good catch. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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AKoller
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Posted: 12 Feb. 2021 at 7:49pm |
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When I rebuilt my engine I didn't know this was something to look for. I had 2 dead cylinders. I ended up finding that I had zero compression in the dead cylinders due to the pushrods in those cylinders were too long not allowing the valves to seat. I don't remember anymore if it was the exhaust or intake valves not seating. Anyhow I was able to move some pushrods around from other cylinders and made it all work.
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1950 CJ3A "Thumper"
1966 M151 A1 1942 GPW #70221 |
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Buickbug
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Posted: 12 Feb. 2021 at 11:14pm |
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I ran into this one many years ago. A fellow driver offered a set of Chevrolet v8 pushrods and they worked perfectly.
Greg
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masscj2a
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Posted: 16 Feb. 2021 at 10:52am |
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Is that the motor you gave me?
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1946 CJ2a Dauntless aka Jalopy
1946 VEC stock 1981 CJ-8 5.3 LS 1966 CJ-6 SBC TUX 1968 CJ-6 225 V6 1974 CJ-6 4.2 1967 M-416 East Coast Modified CJ's |
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jeepsterjim
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Posted: 16 Feb. 2021 at 4:14pm |
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Just input, T A Performance may have the parts.
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Jim
CJ-2A - 81299 |
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oldtime wrote: