Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Modifications from original
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Dauntless Drivetrain Change
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Dauntless Drivetrain Change

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 25>
Author
Message
Ol' Unreliable View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Sep. 2016
Location: CO Springs CO
Status: Offline
Points: 4226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2017 at 6:50pm
Those "couple inches" are hard to come by in an 80" wheelbase.  Cry
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec. 2017 at 3:59am
I made a little progress in past couple days.

1) happened upon a post by ndnchf where he was planning to purchase a T90 and D18 that also came with a frame and 225 V6 that he had no use for.   He lives nearby.   This worked out for both of us.
 
 
 Unfortunately,  the V6 is not a "runner", Ouch

 
but it can still serve as a mock-up engine. Smile

My plans are to assemble the mock Dauntless, bellhousing, SM420, Novak adapter, D300, D44-center-diff on a prototype frame. . . then build things like exhaust, calculate driveshafts etc. . finally, when ready->  transplant everything. Hopefully this will result in very little downtime.

2) found the 3.73 Dana30 gears!! Turns out that I have another D30 front axle that I did not know I had.

3) small progress, but modified the D44 spring plates with some "sliders" to lessen possibility of bending/damaging the U-bolts.




Edited by JeepFever - 11 Dec. 2017 at 4:21am
Back to Top
Ol' Unreliable View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Sep. 2016
Location: CO Springs CO
Status: Offline
Points: 4226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec. 2017 at 3:48am
The V-6 is not a runner right now... 

"Turns out that I have another D30 front axle that I did not know I had."  Wish I could say that....  Wink
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec. 2017 at 3:29am
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

The V-6 is not a runner right now... 

"Turns out that I have another D30 front axle that I did not know I had."  Wish I could say that....  Wink


Not sure what the final life of this 225 will be, (once it serves as a mock-up for me) it will be very cheap (or free) if anyone wants it. I measured the bores and they are original 3.75, so could be over-bored to clear out the rust.

It is a little embarrassing to admit that I found something like this. . an extra D30 axle (I am not that organized ) It was stored under a dormant CJ-7 project, along with the D44.   I always thought it was the original axle from my '2A, but instead was apparently the matching axle to the D44.

Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec. 2017 at 3:44am
I finally got around to contacting Novak about why the D300 adapter could be so much shorter than a D20 adapter.

There are some minor reasons, but the biggy is that the D20 adapter is really a D20/D18 adapter.   The adapter is long because the D18 pushes the U-joint a lot farther forward. (creating interference with the SM420 bulge).



ie. if Novak made separate SM420 adapters for the D18,  and D20.   The D20 one could be shorter  (but possibly not a lot of demand, so not cost effective for Novak to develop)
    

Edited by JeepFever - 15 Mar. 2018 at 5:05pm
Back to Top
Craig1017 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Dec. 2015
Location: Lewiston, ID
Status: Offline
Points: 105
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Craig1017 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec. 2017 at 4:14pm
I'm not sure I understand all the SM420 hate mail here.... :-)

I have 5.38 axles, 30 front, 44 full float rear, SM420/Dana18 with an OD.  I can go ~65 on the hwy, I have pretty good crawl ratio, I can straddle a rock with both axles offset to the right.  If you're worried about your OD, which I agree is a little weak, send it to Hermann for a rebuild, and then only use it on pavement.  Power transfer through the "assembly" isn't really any weaker than stock when not in over drive.

As for the reverse hump clearance issue on the SM420, I just had a thick wall, small diameter front prop shaft made and have no issues whatsoever.  The jump from 2nd to 3rd is a bit of a bugger, but not too bad given the overall system benefits of short length, great gear ratio's, and strong combination.
Back to Top
Joe Friday View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 26 Dec. 2010
Location: Jeep Central
Status: Offline
Points: 3633
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec. 2017 at 5:35pm
FYI there are long and short dana 300's also.
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan. 2018 at 4:07am
Christmas, a busy work schedule, and COLD weather slowed down progress,  but I started again this past weekend to at least doing some planning.  I remembered that I also have a Dana30 in '80 CJ7 (disc brakes),  and thought possibly I could use that in my '2A project.   My excitement turned to dismay when I did some research, and found out the stock 16" narrow wheels might not fit.   I could not confirm on the '80 (narrow track D30),   but tested tonite -> on a '83 (wide, with discs),  a stock '2A wheel would not clear the calipers.  :-(
 
 


Edited by JeepFever - 15 Mar. 2018 at 5:08pm
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan. 2018 at 4:44am
To back up a little . .  my current plan is to have all the swap components as complete as possible,  then, when ready -> install everything,  with as little downtime as possible. 
 
Component assemblies to get ready:
 
225 V6 . . according to PO, only has 40K on it,  (I did see the odometer of his Commando),  he was only replacing because he wanted to go more radical with a V8 . .  I looked under the valve covers,  looks clean . .  need to inspect further though . . hopefully not much work here.
 
SM420 . . I have (2) and will pick one to rebuild.
 
Dana300 . . from a '83 CJ7 . . . 4 cyl  with 80K miles (how much abuse could it see,  haha).   Looks good under the covers.  I am going to gamble and not rebuild this.
 
Dana44 centered diff rear . .  looks clean inside  . .  needs brakes . . . "open" diff now, but will eventually add locker once I decide if 3.73 is right for me.   (unfortunately as mentioned before,  if I get locker for 3.73,  I can not use it for anything lower)
 
Dana30 front . .  as recently discovered, discs might not work with stock wheels,  unless maybe the geo-tracker route?   I have decent 11" drums to install.  Will add locker to the "swap in" axle,  with 3.73 gears,  will have ready to install with whatever brakes I decide on.
 
With the mockup frame,  I am hoping to rough out motor mounts, exhaust, cross-member, driveshafts, etc. ahead of time
Back to Top
Ol' Unreliable View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Sep. 2016
Location: CO Springs CO
Status: Offline
Points: 4226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan. 2018 at 5:02am
I always say, "Planning is the opposite of adventure."  Sometimes "adventure" is unwanted.  I think you have a good plan.
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan. 2018 at 5:31am
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

I always say, "Planning is the opposite of adventure." 
 
Interesting thought,  and so true in many aspects.
 
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

  I think you have a good plan.
 
Thanks!  . .   my hope is to have my '2A disabled in garage for as little as possible,  to allow for maximum opportunity for adventure.  Smile
Back to Top
Greaser007 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jan. 2018
Location: Anderson, Calif
Status: Offline
Points: 850
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan. 2018 at 7:24pm
Wow ......... this has been a Daunting read.

and now my brain is muddled with numbers D20 T18 SM420 D300 ..... wow.

And, to think that this stuff is on a constant "swirl" in the brain.

All very good stuff to sort out.

In my earlier comment on another thread, I think I made a mistake too, I had mentioned inverting the U-bolts and putting the plate on top of the spring-pack.
....... I was thinking on terms of spring-over. God help me.

   Brain-drain .......... hey, I told the guys at work, before retiring, that I was hoping to "dumb-down." ........ hahahaha

all good stuff, and what thoughts exchanged here is a wealth-of-knowledge.

   Too bad that newer V-6 had water in it.
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan. 2018 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

...Dana44 centered diff rear . .  looks clean inside  . .  needs brakes . . . "open" diff now, but will eventually add locker once I decide if 3.73 is right for me.   (unfortunately as mentioned before,  if I get locker for 3.73,  I can not use it for anything lower)
you can go to lower ratios (numerically higher) on the D44 if you use a thick gear:

https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=dana%2044%20thick%20gear

... it is the D30 where the carrier break is critical. Lucky for you, 3.73 carrier (case), is good for numerically higher.

Quote ...Dana30 front . .  as recently discovered, discs might not work with stock wheels,  unless maybe the geo-tracker route? ....
From what I've read, even geo tracker disks require a 5/16" shim. I can fit stock KH wheels over my jeep disc brakes with a 3/8" shim. I just put longer studs in.
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan. 2018 at 4:40am
Originally posted by Greaser007 Greaser007 wrote:

Wow ......... this has been a Daunting read.

and now my brain is muddled with numbers D20 T18 SM420 D300 ..... wow.

And, to think that this stuff is on a constant "swirl" in the brain.

All very good stuff to sort out.

In my earlier comment on another thread, I think I made a mistake too, I had mentioned inverting the U-bolts and putting the plate on top of the spring-pack.
....... I was thinking on terms of spring-over. God help me.

   Brain-drain .......... hey, I told the guys at work, before retiring, that I was hoping to "dumb-down." ........ hahahaha

all good stuff, and what thoughts exchanged here is a wealth-of-knowledge.

   Too bad that newer V-6 had water in it.
 
Yep,  lots of numbers.  haha
 
I usually only have time to skim a few posts a day,  but did happen to catch your post.   Welcome aboard,  you have some great experience.  . .   I have to admit though,  you had me wondering on the inverted U-bolts. LOL
 
 
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan. 2018 at 4:48am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

...Dana44 centered diff rear . .  looks clean inside  . .  needs brakes . . . "open" diff now, but will eventually add locker once I decide if 3.73 is right for me.   (unfortunately as mentioned before,  if I get locker for 3.73,  I can not use it for anything lower)
you can go to lower ratios (numerically higher) on the D44 if you use a thick gear:

https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=dana%2044%20thick%20gear
 
This is good to know . . I would be safe to get locker for rear now . . and have plenty of "thick gear" options later.
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan. 2018 at 5:11am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

  From what I've read, even geo tracker disks require a 5/16" shim. I can fit stock KH wheels over my jeep disc brakes with a 3/8" shim. I just put longer studs in.
 
If using a 3/8" shim, does that mean the wheel is no longer centered by the hub?  ie. only centered by the lug nuts?  
 
I have (3) Dana30 axles:    mid '70s with drums (narrow),  '81 with discs (narrow),  and '83/84 with discs (wide).   I can only test wheel clearance on the '83 at moment.  The only KH I have is the one I tested last night, and it interfered.    I tried a different one tonite.  It also interfered,  but seemed less.  This caliper has what appears to be almost new pads.  I bet if the pads were half worn,  the wheel would slightly clear.  haha
 
Edit: if the '83 has more clearance (due to lighter duty components maybe?),  then possibly I could swap all the outers to one of the narrow axles.   
 
 


Edited by JeepFever - 17 Jan. 2018 at 5:27am
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 11173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan. 2018 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

....If using a 3/8" shim, does that mean the wheel is no longer centered by the hub?  ie. only centered by the lug nuts? .....
The lug nuts are what center the wheels even with no shim. The hub is 4" diameter, the center hole in the wheel is 4-1/4" diameter:



To get my combat wheels to clear, I had to grind a little meat off the calipers.

Edited by jpet - 17 Jan. 2018 at 1:15pm
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"

"We do what we can, and we try what we can't"
Back to Top
JeepFever View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Aug. 2012
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 2735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan. 2018 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:

....If using a 3/8" shim, does that mean the wheel is no longer centered by the hub?  ie. only centered by the lug nuts? .....
The lug nuts are what center the wheels even with no shim. The hub is 4" diameter, the center hole in the wheel is 4-1/4" diameter:

Wow did not realize there was that much difference between hub and wheel center hole. Shocked


Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

To get my combat wheels to clear, I had to grind a little meat off the calipers.

Which brakes do you have?   I tried to find in the "Universal" thread,  but did not find details,  only that they are stock Dana30 disc brakes.  (I think I saw that in there)

In researching and trying to figure this out.   It seems that there might be at least 3 different combinations used on CJ's.   
1) earlier 6-bolt caliper brackets  1-1/8" rotors 
2) 2-bolt caliper brackets 7/8" rotors,  which is what I should have on my '81 axle,  except they are missing. Confused
3) Brackets for mid-80's (not sure on bolt count).    
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 25>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.