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Dual Master Cylinder Conversion

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ralf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dual Master Cylinder Conversion
    Posted: 06 Mar. 2011 at 6:13pm
I bought Herm's kit.  It is massive compared to the stock MC in the photo.  Installation requires removal of the stock MC mounting plate.  I am going to install today.



















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1947 CJ2A
1948 CJ2A
1953 Ford NAA Golden Jubilee Tractor

1941 J-3 Cub
1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy_YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2011 at 9:00pm
sweet, looking forward to seeing how this goes.  Planning this upgrade for mine eventually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47goDevil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2011 at 9:08pm
is that a kit, how well does that bracket fit ? 
 i think it was hawkjeep told me of positioning dilemma . he's doing a 3a right now. 
keep us posted . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar. 2011 at 9:43pm
Main issue is that pre 1948 frames have the pedal shaft bracket  welded to both sides of the frame with a thin boxing plate on the inside.  Later frames used a pedal shaft bracket that is "U" shaped and riveted to the bottom of the frame.  You just grind off the heads of those rivets and pound them up through the bottom flange of the frame.  Then you drill those holes out to accept 3/8" bolts as well as the holes in the bracket and bolt the bracket right back in its original position.  When the bolts pass through the brackets and the frame they locate the bracket which has matching holes.  I was able to cut out the inner boxing plate and grind on the bracket a little to make it fit, but I may just buy the newer bracket for a cleaner install plus Carl Walck says that the inside of that tube wears and causes slop in the pedals.


Here is for 48's  up to the 70's

So, I cut off the old one and will order a new one from Walcks.


In theory this is how it mounts





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Edited by ralf - 07 Mar. 2011 at 12:06am
1947 CJ2A
1948 CJ2A
1953 Ford NAA Golden Jubilee Tractor

1941 J-3 Cub
1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared1956 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2011 at 12:35am
 
Looks almost identical to the one I was thinking about using from SO-CAL........a surprising amount of stuff made for 30's Fords looks like it will work for our Jeeps.......

Edited by Jared1956 - 07 Mar. 2011 at 12:41am



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mix4coal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2011 at 12:52am
Please show us pictures of it installed. how will you remove the top to add fluid? Wont it be buried under the floorboard?
'47 CJ2A # 104985
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1953 Dodge M37
1948 1 1/2-2 1/2HP IHC LB
1929 1 1/2 HP SATTLEY HIT MISS

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2011 at 1:08am
If you click on my "photo page"(below) then go to the brakes gallery, there are some pics of this kit installed.

Edited by bkreutz - 07 Mar. 2011 at 1:08am
Gale

47 CJ2A 142857
47 Bantam T3-C 16271


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2011 at 3:15am
Jared, the MC must have the ports on the right side or ports on both sides so you canblock off left side.  These are often called Corvette style if they have 2 ports on each side.


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1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2011 at 1:21am
Went to Steve's Auto Parts today to find a smaller dual master cylinder.  The one I got from Herm just would not fit, no matter how much I cut and ground on it.  What he sells is for a 1971 AMC Matador, I have never seen such a large MC.  I figure the casting has changed over the years as others started making them.  The one I got had two large bosses on the drivers side just like the passenger side.  My guess is that the same casting could be then drilled on either side depending on the application.  I cut and ground on it till I ruined it and it still hit the Ross steering box.  I even reversed the bolts on the steering box and put the heads inside the frame but it still hit.

So, I went to see Big Steve.  He said go on back and see if you can find one.  Another employee and I went back and started looking through boxes for a smallish dual master cylinder with one large and one small chamber and the ports to the passenger side.  In a few minutes we found a Cardone 10-1907 that fit the bill.  It was a good inch and a half shorter and had the deep pocket for the plunger which I understand to be for manual brakes.  The Matador MC had the shallow pocket for power brake operation.  I took it straight home and it bolted right up.  I looked on line and it is for a 1982-1983 Ford Fairmont.  A re-manufactured unit at Autozone is $17 + $5 for the core.


The Matador MC was almost 8 1/2" long.  Right above the rule is one of the bosses I cut off but before I ground on it. (that is the old style pedal shaft bracket after I cut it off, next to the MC the little hole is for a grease fitting)


So, I would order the bracket from Herm and source out your own MC.  Many early 70's AMC and Fords had the ports on the passenger side and even some Chrysler era Jeeps.  I have disks up front so I wanted the big/little chamber set up.  For drums all around, the chambers should be equal.  Neither Herm's or the Cardone had a brake switch so you have to add a pressure switch in line.  If you hunt more than me you could probably find one with pressure switch built in.

Ordered the new style pedal shaft  bracket from Walck's along with all the do dads for the clutch bell crank guts and mounting balls as well as some pedal washers.  Can't bolt it up without the bracket.









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Edited by ralf - 08 Mar. 2011 at 2:59am
1947 CJ2A
1948 CJ2A
1953 Ford NAA Golden Jubilee Tractor

1941 J-3 Cub
1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote F Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2011 at 1:51am

Thumbs Up

Good write up Ralf!

Edited by F Bill - 08 Mar. 2011 at 2:34pm
If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html
for a lot of great stuff you need to know!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2011 at 3:01am
F Bill, did you think I wrote 72-73? WinkThe  Cardone 10-1907 fits the 82-83 Ford Fairmont.
1947 CJ2A
1948 CJ2A
1953 Ford NAA Golden Jubilee Tractor

1941 J-3 Cub
1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windyhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2011 at 1:25pm
Ralf did you contact Herm and communicate your findings? Bet he'd be interested in what you found out.

Did you get a picture of the two side by side?


Edited by windyhill - 08 Mar. 2011 at 1:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote F Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2011 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by ralf ralf wrote:

F Bill, did you think I wrote 72-73? WinkThe  Cardone 10-1907 fits the 82-83 Ford Fairmont.
 
Nope, I'm not ADD.. nor dyslexic eithre. lol.I read your post as 72 -3 for some unknown reason. Corrected MY post. 82-83 Fairmonts I know about I had one once. It seemed to attract folks with no depth perception at stoplights, that rear bumper got a workout regularly. I sold it to someone who needed basic transportation, would have lasted forever but an aftermarket fuel filter burst and it burned up.
If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html
for a lot of great stuff you need to know!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar. 2011 at 9:18pm
I will drop Herm a note.  I am not looking for my money back because I cut it up rather than getting back to him.  I do think the Matador MC was over kill as that was a full size car.  I have a list of MC's that seemed to fit the bill for front disk, rear drum (one chamber larger than the other) with two outlets on the right side.  If you have all drum then there are many more out there with dual chambers of equal size and ports on the right.  From my reading, it also seems that the depth of the hole in the MC for the push rod is important, deep hole for manual and shallow hole for power brake applications.
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1948 CJ2A
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1941 J-3 Cub
1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garage gnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar. 2011 at 12:45am
I am going to be making this modification to my 3A. I just ordered the kit from Herm (along with some other stuff LOL) Thanks for sharing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar. 2011 at 1:12am
Finished the install after I got new pedal shaft bracket from Walck's.  Replacing the old welded on bracket with the new style bolt on bracket helps because Herm's bracket locates with the two bracket bolts.  I marked the center line of the old bracket on the frame before I cut it off.  Then clamped new bracket on the center line and drilled frame.


Herm's bracket fits inside the frame and is held at the bottom by the pedal shaft bracket bolts.  I drilled a hole from the top through the frame into the top of Herm's bracket and used a 3/8 " bolt and nut to secure the top.












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Edited by ralf - 14 Mar. 2011 at 1:24am
1947 CJ2A
1948 CJ2A
1953 Ford NAA Golden Jubilee Tractor

1941 J-3 Cub
1957 Farmall Cub Low Boy tractor
1942 Clarktor WW2 tug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hawkjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar. 2011 at 4:26am
Nice
I did something just like it to 3a
cj2a 1948 155822 v6 sold

cj3a 1950 3J45548 4L MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar. 2011 at 5:23am
Ralf,
Herm advertises some 90 degree adapters for the hydraulic lines going into the master. You might consider using those, they weren't an option when I did mine and I had a lot of difficulty getting clearance between the lines coming out the side of the master and the movement of the drag link fore and aft. (just a thought)
Gale

47 CJ2A 142857
47 Bantam T3-C 16271


Photo page http://bkreutz.smugmug.com/
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