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The Resurrection of CJ2-26

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Fred Coldwell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar. 2017 at 2:08pm
Wow!  Very impressive analysis Jeff and Todd.  I never would have guessed the "JEEP" stampings were hand-formed, but the evidence seems incontrovertible. Today is my third consecutive day of very slow and rusty disassembly 40 miles away, so I'll add a few further comments tonight when I get back home.  Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to work I go . . .
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar. 2017 at 5:19pm
So Fred, which one of the 7 dwarves do you fancy yourself after?
You know your project has been adopted by the entire forum. It's kind of a big deal. Everyone loves a thriller with all the twists and turns and unexpected outcomes. Just keep moving forward, we'll all come along for the ride.Big smile
eat,sleep,jeep

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar. 2017 at 8:27pm
Well since I'm grumpy I'm thinking Fred is Doc or happy.

Choices:Bashful, Doc, Dopey, Happy, Sleepy, Sneezy and Grumpy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 12:58am
So, how many of the "Jeep" stamped CJ-2s were made?  Would Willys have hand-stamped all four "Jeep"s for every one of the Jeeps?  That's a fair number of stampings, isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 1:32am
They were a prototype so time would not have been as big a factor as a production model??.

Small manufacturers still hand build cars and no two are the same!, wonder if that also applies to the CJ2s?...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PapaC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 4:55am
Know absolutely nothing about this but found this thread interesting. Seemed like a low tech solution to what he was trying to accomplish in stamping embossed letters.

Perhaps with some modifications? and some careful pick and body work at least some of his idea could help stamp the jeep letters???

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-emboss-lettering-into-sheet-metal-207719.html#/topics/207719?page=1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48willys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 11:37am
Is it possible that they weren't stamped at all and were done by hand on a shot bag? I don't know if its even possible in sheet metal that thick, but if that's the case you may find someone in like medieval armor or repousse that could do a good copy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 11:43am
Originally posted by 67charger 67charger wrote:

I know this has nothing to do with the jeep, but your power wagon is awesome!  Does that have a closed knuckle dana 70 front?  Oh yeah and nice jeep.

Yes, the 1968 Dodge W300 had a closed knuckle Dana 70 front axle and a full floating Dana 70 rear axle.  They were both connected to a New Process 201 transfer case with a 10 bolt PTO.  The drive train on that truck was very stout but the LA 318 engine struggled when going uphill. On the flats with no headwind it was OK. Glad you like the JEEP!

Originally posted by damar@yxr damar@yxr wrote:

So Fred, which one of the 7 dwarves do you fancy yourself after?

Well, during the past month I've been Sneezy due to the flu, but that was not by choice. Now that it has subsided, I'm back to my usual Happy self.  Wink

Originally posted by Joe Friday Joe Friday wrote:

Well since I'm grumpy I'm thinking Fred is Doc or Happy.

Mr. Factual got it right with his second thought.  Smile

Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

So, how many of the "Jeep" stamped CJ-2s were made?  Would Willys have hand-stamped all four "Jeep"s for every one of the Jeeps?  That's a fair number of stampings, isn't it?

The Willys factory made 20 CJ-2s with the stamped JEEP on both sides of the hood sides, on the front lower windshield panel and on the tailgate. So that's a total of 80 stampings.

Originally posted by Adrian Adrian wrote:

They were a prototype so time would not have been as big a factor as a production model. Small manufacturers still hand build cars and no two are the same!, wonder if that also applies to the CJ2s?...

I believe American Central Manufacturing Corporation, Connersville, Indiana, hand built all 40 of the CJ-2 bodies. On the earlier (first 20) AGRIJEEPs the longitudinal ribs on the top of the inner rear fenders and across the rear floor are not evenly spaced apart, suggesting they were hand formed on a roller die in the flat sheet metal before final assembly. I imagine close measurement of the ribs on the stamped CJ-2 JEEPs would reveal the same very slightly uneven spacing. 




Edited by Fred Coldwell - 17 Mar. 2017 at 11:45am
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 12:36pm
Not only were the ribs Fred mentioned not evenly spaced, but they also are inconsistent with height of the ribs.  There is a lot of evidence of hand forming on the CJ-2s.  Another example is the transmission cross member.  You can still see the hammer marks of the person who formed it.
 
PapaC: Interesting article!  Instead of cutting out the letters, I wonder if CNC milling the letters would work.
Todd Paisley

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 3:43pm
My theory is that Fred used to be 'Doc', but when he retired he became 'Happy'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PapaC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Todd Paisley Todd Paisley wrote:


Instead of cutting out the letters, I wonder if CNC milling the letters would work.


Figured real dies would be too expensive to make and still might not stamp and stretch and move the the metal right even if they were perfect reproductions of the casting shown in this thread.

So my expanded but maybe way out of line due to inexperience thoughts would be to waterjet the basic letters out of aluminum, maybe glue them the heavy steel plate, get a good outline of them when stamping, and then finish them off with repousee work like 48willys suggested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by Oilleaker1 Oilleaker1 wrote:

Amazing that the "J" has a fancy rounded beginning which is expanded from the main stalk.

John:

The fancy round beginning to the stamped "J" is taken from the crisper round beginning of the "J" found on the bronze plaques on the earlier first 20 AGRIJEEPs, as seen here:



But the much more crude and rounded stamped "J" on the later CJ2s cannot approach the clean lines of the "J" in the bronze JEEP plaque on the Agrijeeps. 

For 3 months, from November 1945 to January 1946, Willys included a similarly shaped "J" logo in its magazine ads (but now with a cap across its top), as seen here in an excerpt from the December 22, 1945 ad in Saturday Evening Post

 
Enjoy!
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 5:20pm
I think that after the final restoration is done, those of us that are following this thread should get some sort of degree in Jeepology. 

Thanks Fed and everyone for bringing us along on this very interesting journey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 8:38pm
I'm still working on this but I'll probably do something like this:


Since the slope of the tines is kinda tricky, I'll probably press some samples out and remove some out of the slopes as I go until the stamping looks right.  The slight complication is that the radius of the tines is 3/16" but the width is only 5/16" so If I go deeper, I also get wider.  This causes me grief with the vertical pillar since it has a 3/8" radius but the corners are 3/16"  for that reason, I have to use a 3/8" ball endmill to do the whole thing and do some interpolations in the vertical pillar. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 10:19pm
Hi Jeff.  Close!  The thickness of the vertical line of the E looks to be a little too thick.  Take a look at this:
 
 
I think this is going to be a trial and error thing.  If we can find someone with a CNC mill, we can try one design and see how it will work on the real metal.  From what we see, we can tweak the die some to address issues we see.
 
I wonder what would happen if you just made a cut out of an E at the correct height and you just beat the metal done on this if it would create the rounded effect.  (Maybe heat the metal first.)
 


Edited by Todd Paisley - 17 Mar. 2017 at 10:35pm
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
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1945 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 10:32pm
The "J" is going to be interesting for the die.  The vertical line tapers until you get to the bottom where it turns. The "walls" from the bottom to the top height of the letter are very vertical there compared to the top were it gently tapers down.
 
But the good news is that once the E is done, 50% of the letters will done!  ;) 
 
Todd Paisley

1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 10:34pm
Very interesting to see what's next.Love to follow this thread,the history is great,keep the pictures coming .

Giles.

Edited by Gil - 17 Mar. 2017 at 10:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Paisley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar. 2017 at 10:59pm
I wonder if hydroforming may be a good candidate as well:
 
 
You would just need to find a nice rubber blank.
 
Or maybe 3D print the die:
 


Edited by Todd Paisley - 17 Mar. 2017 at 11:43pm
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1941 MB-100063 - MB Factory Test Mule
1942 MB-123136 - Earliest Documented "Civilian" Test Jeep
1944 CJ2-12 - X36
1944 CJ2-16 - X40
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