engine smokes BAD |
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contact148
Member Joined: 05 Jan. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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Posted: 30 May 2008 at 7:55pm |
Ok playing with the 46 2a again today has a 49 cj2a engine chain drive timeing gear
have about 5 hours run time on the enigine (since ive had it) and she smokes real bad ok at idle but rev her up and smoke city, NOT rebuilt
finally got the oil pressure guage hooked up today (from walcks) allmost NO pressure at idle 20lbs at 20mph (no load its on stands ive never driven it)
checked compression today warm engine and i got 110 PSI on each cylinder
did the rear main seal NO leaks changed the oil and filter I used quaker state 10/30 (last week) I did remove oil pickup and cleaned the screen out I reinstalled it with new paper gasket
I did have an oil leak at the guage itself tightened it up thats fixed but no other leaks so i know oil is beening moved around Oil lines at filter are also warm
any ideas here guys?
since my engine is a 49 oil pressure can be 6psi at ide according to my book
Im worried and getting mad every time i work on it theres another problem shes a money pit!
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I don't know a whole bunch about these motors. I've had mine for about a month. It smokes some and leaks even more. When I got it, it used a quart of oil every 50 miles. I took the PCV valve apart, cleaned it out and the plumbing. Now it uses a quart about every 150 miles. That ain't great but it is a huge improvement. This engine mostly leaks though.
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F Bill
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 05 Dec. 2005 Location: central Texas Status: Offline Points: 7752 |
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Pressure seems low, I would be tempted to try some snake oil in the crankcase like Lucas..
Double check the PCV system for proper operation.. Occasionally the valves can stick open and cause poor idle and lots of oil burning.
I'd also consider pulling the plugs, pouring in some Marvel mystery oil or Seafoam and letting it soak a while to make sure the rings are free of gummy deposits causing them to stick. A week oughta do whatever the additives are capable of.
Then I'd try to run it a while under load by actual driving...if you have been living right and you have good jeep point ratings, you may luck out and have the engine come back to life. Realize an older engine is always going to smoke some at startup. (It shouldn't be an embarrassing cloud, howwever!)
Sounds like yo have been doing all the right stuff, here's hoping you don't have a worn out engine that really needs a rebore and ring/piston replacement although that sure sounds like what ya have. (If my compression gage read 110 lbs at normal cranking speed on a warm engine I'd be thinking excessive wear...However gages vary as well as user technique, so your 110 may be my 125. ) But I would also try the snake oil tricks before I pulled it apart.
I don't know about that money pit thing tho... My Chevy pickup's 37 gallon tank is a money pit too!
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If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html for a lot of great stuff you need to know!! |
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samcj2a
Member Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 21 Oct. 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Status: Offline Points: 8549 |
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Besides the many leaks these guys develop, three primary areas to look for excessive oil consumptions are: clogged and malfunctioning PCV valve, worn valve guides and valve stems, and worn rings and cylinders - in the rough order of ease of repair.
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contact148
Member Joined: 05 Jan. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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Ok oil pressure problem solved
it was leaking at the guagfe and i tightened it....whell i must have messed up the guage as i loosened it a bit and the pressure increased by alot
idle is just under 10psi
at approx 800 rpm 20 psi
at 2000 rpm around 30 psi
still smokes like a mother but otherwise runs nicely!
if the rain stops im goning to take it around the block if i can get it off the stands alone
how would one check valaves?
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bkreutz
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 17 Oct. 2006 Location: Fruitland Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7037 |
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Had some thoughts on this, I'm thinking maybe the rings have gotten gummed up from sitting for an extended period, especially the oil control ring. Putting some Marvel might help, but the problem with a flathead is that not much of it actually gets to the rings since the plug holes aren't directly above the cylinders. Sometimes just driving time will free them up. Could be something else entirely but that's what came to my mind when I read your description.
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Turtleherder
Member Joined: 15 Jan. 2006 Location: Asheboro, NC Status: Offline Points: 303 |
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I agree with the consensus. Drive it. See what happens and report back. Some smoke is normal in the beginning of a run.
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p3ferris
Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Norfolk Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 3812 |
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The valve guides will do this to you . They may be bad. If you have 110 on the cylinders that should be good. I would really look at the guides though. Just my thoughts
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Ed
cj2a lefty |
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bkreutz
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 17 Oct. 2006 Location: Fruitland Idaho Status: Offline Points: 7037 |
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One way to tell if the guides are bad is accelerate and then let completely off the gas pedal, the engine vacuum momentarily goes very high and if the guides are bad the smoke will get a lot worse during that period. (sucks the oil past the guides, also sucks that this is happening but that's another story) Hope this is helpful
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the new guy
Member Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Lovington, NM Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Driving it should answer your question anyway . If you have compression then we know its not the rings , so that only leaves three possible problems . 1: The crank case doesn't have enough ventilation and its building pressure , forcing oil past the rings and guides ( I don't know enough about jeep engines yet , but on most other engines its an easy fix )or 2: its been sitting for so long that oil has leaked into your cylinders over a long period of time ( which driving it for a couple of days will burn it out ) or 3: your guides are bad . If the guides are bad then the smoking will decrease , maybe even stop after driving it a while but if you let it sit over night it will smoke bad again in the morning ( in which the head will need to be taken off and new valve guides installed ), A local machine shop can install them if you are unable to do it yourself .
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the new guy
Member Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Lovington, NM Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I don't know for sure but there should be water jackets in the heads . if the head gasket is bad it could leak water into a cylinder , and that would smoke as well . What color is the smoke ? Grayish black , light gray/white , or does it have a blueish tint . I'm not perfect and maybe mistaken but i hope it helps .
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contact148
Member Joined: 05 Jan. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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its blue smoke oil for SURE!
I just did an oil change and with less then 1 hour run time my oil is black what gives?
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the new guy
Member Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Lovington, NM Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Thats a sign that the engine is worn out for sure . Sludge builds up on the sides of an engine after being used for long periods of time . When you put the new oil in it some of the sludge washes off the sides of the engine and mixes with the new oil turning black very quickly . I'm almost positive that this engine has a lot of miles on it and there is a good chance that the valve guides are worn out . sorry for the bad luck , I think anyone who has had a lot of old cars has ran into this situation before . I have several times .
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F Bill
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 05 Dec. 2005 Location: central Texas Status: Offline Points: 7752 |
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Black oil simply means the detergent in your new oil is cleaning up the dirt in your engine. If a previous owner wasn't too good about maintenace it will take a few oil changes and maybe some parts cleaning to get it to where it stays cleaner longer for ya. It does NOT necessarily indicate the engine is worn out.
Compression readings indicate pressure in cylinders but unfortunately do not tell you just what shape your oil control rings are in. You could have fine compression and still have stuck oil rings.
When installing marvel or any other ring freeing liquid into the cylinders, you can try to get thepistons part way down the cylinder walls, and then direct the flow of whatever you are using with a straw or a funnel. I have bought "Seafoam" in a spray can from NAPA and very sucessfully was able to get plenty into each cylinder to soak the rings.
Please remove your PCV valve and clean it good before you give up on the engine. Having made the mistake of rebuilding an engine BEFORE checking out the PCV back in my youth, I remember to check it first now.
SOunds like good news on the oil pressure front!!!
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If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html for a lot of great stuff you need to know!! |
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GaryArf
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 21 July 2005 Location: Baxter MN Status: Offline Points: 3905 |
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All the above is good info. By the book 110 is good compression. If this enginr hasn't ran in awhile I would run it and run it hard. These things we think are big "issues" were not back in "the day" this may come out of it, there mey be alot of sh1t in the exhaust....With that much compression, there is something else going on. sometimes a good work out will straighten itself out. as long as you have oil pressure, I would wind it up and see if it comes out of it. (I would do all the previously sugjested LUB treatment to shake the rings loss).
These old engines have a problem with carbon deposits that biuld up in the grooves that retain the rings and oil rings.
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CJ2A #10021 #34692 #58500
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the new guy
Member Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Lovington, NM Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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As I did say before , I could be mistaken . This is the conclusion that I've came up to based on my own experiances . but looking at what I put down , I did make it sound pretty bad . Even if the engine has a lot of miles , that doesn't mean you have to completely rebuild it . Good compression and oil pressure tells me that the bottom end is fine . If it is the engine itself , I would say its valve guides , which really isn't that bad . Ive had to replace them before on other projects and had it taken apart and put back together in a weekend. And trust me , there is always a chance that it could be something small that was simply overlooked . Knowing that , I would try everything else first . As mentioned above , you dont want to spend the time and money to tear into an engine only to find out it was something simple , and if it does turn out to be valve guides lube isn't going to make it any worse.
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contact148
Member Joined: 05 Jan. 2006 Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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Ok took her out today for its first spin in over 30 years.....
Just went around the block 5 times as no plates yet
got it up to 40 MPH
seems to smoke ONLY when i was reving it and only when starting out of 1st or changeing gears
breaks seemed a little lacking but then Im used to disc breaks Jeep stopped when i wanted it to
shifting there is a little grind into each gear even 1st NOT reverse through clutch was di-engaged as i watched thru the inspection hole
steering was a bit sloppy seem to have about 1/2 inch play either way
everything rebuilt/replaced on front end steering except the steering box itself
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the new guy
Member Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Lovington, NM Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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That actually sounds about normal for a vehical thats been sitting a while . Keep driving it when you get a chance and see if that smoke clears up . The steering play doesn't sound bad to me either , but I think I would bleed the brakes if I was you .
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