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Frame change from 2A to 3A style?

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Bob W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2010 at 9:32am
Allen, I have not inspected any late 2A frames since then although it is on my list of things to do!

Scott, thanks for the data. I am sure you will find it's got the 2A motor mounts. Your serial number fits right in as the "late style". Does your Jeep have the splash guard behind the passenger side motor mount?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westforkboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2010 at 9:38am
Quote I will need a little more info to know if I have the  "2A style spacing for the motor mounts" or not.
 
Scott
The, or one of the, unique things about these late 2A frames is the motor mounts were the same as the earlier 2A frames. Directly across from each other. When the 3A came out that frame had the left side mount offset to accomodate the new fuel pump. The front engine plate on the 3A was offset then too of course. The mounts were rivited so its somewhat obvious if you have a 3A frame that has been modified to hold a 2A engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2010 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by westforkboyd westforkboyd wrote:

Scott
The, or one of the, unique things about these late 2A frames is the motor mounts were the same as the earlier 2A frames. Directly across from each other. When the 3A came out that frame had the left side mount offset to accomodate the new fuel pump. The front engine plate on the 3A was offset then too of course. The mounts were rivited so its somewhat obvious if you have a 3A frame that has been modified to hold a 2A engine.


Offset like the CJ-5? Then no. My mounts are in line with each other. Although they are both bolted to the frame but I do know for sure the motor was rebuilt in the mid 70's. Must have needed new mounts then too.


Originally posted by Bob W Bob W wrote:


Does your Jeep have the splash guard behind the passenger side motor mount?


Yes it does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captianpattson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2010 at 9:54pm
Motor mounts changed perhaps, but it would be much more obvious if the motor mount bracket was replaced, the factory bracket was riveted in. Here's my 49 frame showing the brackets parallel.
There was also no strapping on my frame, they are all one piece
'49 CJ2A in fewer pieces than before
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RealDeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2013 at 4:32am
Originally posted by russnj russnj wrote:

Nice! Thanks A lot Bob!
It seems mine falls in the late range 219635 is my serial number, 211728 is my body number. What would the changes to look out for to be sure? I have always been skeptical of both of my tags since they are pop riveted onto the body.

WFB: Mule and my 2A are only 84 numbers apart! If my tags are correct that is.
They must have been made within a few days of each other.

Russ

Russ,

I know this is an old thread but our Jeeps are only 72 Jeeps apart!  I've got an emerald green CJ2A:

Serial Number 219707
Body Number 212772
Engine Number J249019

Dave

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamhog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2017 at 4:58pm
Does anybody know if the late frame without bumper gussets, still have the single hole on the top of the frame, that looks to be about 6-8 inches back?
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captianpattson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2017 at 5:41pm
When you say without bumper gusset do you mean without separate ones? They flared out the end of the frame to incorporate a gussety effect...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamhog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2017 at 6:50pm
Yes. On the later style frame, the bumper is riveted directly to the frame. So the frame flared at the end? Top and bottom? Do you know how much?
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captianpattson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2017 at 9:07pm
I can't figure out how to post pictures from my phone. But I measured it and it's 3.75 inches tall
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamhog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 6:12am
Anybody got a picture of the frame, as it should be, with the bumper off?
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bverboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 6:18am
anybody know if there is a stamped serial number on the frame or tub??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 7:13am
Originally posted by Hamhog Hamhog wrote:

Anybody got a picture of the frame, as it should be, with the bumper off?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Hamhog Hamhog wrote:

Yes. On the later style frame, the bumper is riveted directly to the frame. So the frame flared at the end? Top and bottom? Do you know how much?
I don't have an exact measurement, but it's about 3-3:4" tall to fit the inside of the bumper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wadoyado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Bob W Bob W wrote:

<FONT face=Arial>

I have been saving frame information from the web when I see a photo and serial number posted together. Now I added Russ and Allen to the list. Some of you will probably recognize your serial numbers.


Here is what I have so far.


195513 early frame


199079 change to inverted bell crank 6/11/48 per Bulletin 48-43 (still early type frame)


206711 early frame


209949 early frame


215648 change to late style frame 9/20/1948 per Bulletin 48-60


217424 late frame


219579 late frame


219635 late frame


219719 late frame


222638 late frame


223579 late frame


224206 late frame


From this data it looks like serial number 215648 is actually the frame change point. I would not be surprised if there were a few frames that fall outside of this range. If anyone has a 1948 or 49 CJ-2A please let us know your serial number and what type frame you have.


The later Parts Manuals complicate deciphering the frame change point because late style frames, plus the additional components necessary to retrofit them, quickly superceded the 2 early frames.


There really isn't much in common between early and late frame types. Here are a few differences that stand right out. The front bumper attachment, transmission crossmember attachment, clutch and brake pedal shaft bracket, and shock mounts. Here are some photos of the late type frame.



Passenger side front bumper attachment

 

 

 


Transmission crossmember, body mount, and pedal bracket.


 

 


Shock mounts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wadoyado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 10:31am
Originally posted by wadoyado wadoyado wrote:

Originally posted by Bob W Bob W wrote:

<FONT face=Arial>

I have been saving frame information from the web when I see a photo and serial number posted together. Now I added Russ and Allen to the list. Some of you will probably recognize your serial numbers.


Here is what I have so far.


195513 early frame


199079 change to inverted bell crank 6/11/48 per Bulletin 48-43 (still early type frame)


206711 early frame


209949 early frame


215648 change to late style frame 9/20/1948 per Bulletin 48-60


217424 late frame


219579 late frame


219635 late frame


219719 late frame


222638 late frame


223579 late frame


224206 late frame


From this data it looks like serial number 215648 is actually the frame change point. I would not be surprised if there were a few frames that fall outside of this range. If anyone has a 1948 or 49 CJ-2A please let us know your serial number and what type frame you have.[/P

The later Parts Manuals complicate deciphering the frame change point because late style frames, plus the additional components necessary to retrofit them, quickly superceded the 2 early frames.


There really isn't much in common between early and late frame types. Here are a few differences that stand right out. The front bumper attachment, transmission crossmember attachment, clutch and brake pedal shaft bracket, and shock mounts. Here are some photos of the late type frame.



Passenger side front bumper attachment

 

 

 


Transmission crossmember, body mount, and pedal bracket.


 

 


Shock mounts.

    Thought I'd add to the confusion a little. My late 48 208783 owned since 1950 is definetly a 3a frame. I think the change was more likely around 199079, a clue I think is in the master cly. The large hole iron MC are wider apart and need 3/8 threaded mounts on the frame. My frame looks like the one pictured, different bell crank, master cyl. crossmember ect. Thanks Joe Wadoyado
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wadoyado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 10:43am
I just realized Bob W post was 9 yrs. ago, man I hate being such a "rookie" Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamhog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar. 2017 at 7:23am
Thanks guys.
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamhog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2017 at 3:27am
Another question.

In regard to the rivets that fasten the bumper to the frame...there are 4 on each side. 1 on the top, 1 on the front, and 2 on the bottom. So an original bumper should only have those holes and the 2 for the front ag weight and the hand crank hole...correct? I see reproduction bumpers with what looks like 4 extra holes. Can anybody post a pic of an unmolested, original late-style 2A bumper?

Thanks in advance.
Dave
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