"Improved" CJ2A Canvas Top |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I did not see anywhere in the data you posted where it says what class the fabric is but since it says "MILDEW RESISTANT, CCC-D-950 AND WATER REPELLENT, CCC-D-950", I think it can be assumed that it is class B. .... the part I did not understand is where you said this fabric is the "non waxed" type. Vegetable wax (along with other .... stuff...), is the water repellant used per CCC-D-950. 3.8.1 (page 6). I wonder if you should ask Tim what his thoughts are on using Thompson sealer on the fabric. Sounds to me, like the fabric meets all the government specs and should work good as is. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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JPet - The canvas is not waxed or creosoted like an old fashion military tarp - it dose not have the same smell or feel as the old WW2 canvas. This is some kind of newer treatment. It has a dry feel - not a waxy feel. I don't know how else to explain it. It is something that meets the spec but it is not the same old school topping. It could be silicon or some other type of water proofing - probably to meet some EPA requirement. I have poured water on it and the water rolls right off.
I agree it should be good to go as is and could be coated later if desired. It would be nice to work with in its current state. Thanks for you! |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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If anyone is interested, here is a picture of my top when it was new:
This is #8 cotton duck 18 oz Type I, Class B, and meets the specifications listed in CCC-D-950F It has a little bit of baggyness to it (purposely). In my experience, there is a slight initial shrinkage that is almost immediate.... like in days. This shrinkage is good because all the loose sags pocket areas tighten up but the areas of the canvas that are supported by the frame structure do not. Basically the top forms to the geometry of the bows, doors, and windshield and the top achieves a "fit" look very quickly. The door curtains are not fastened at the bottom. I left them a little long to allow for shrinkage since the bottom of my curtains are not fastened: ........ Here is the same top almost 2 years later and entering its third winter: notice the canvas has changed to a khakii color which I think looks very cool: notice how all the loose wrinkles are gone. It still zips up: The summer top portion, or roof, still fits as it did on day one, IMO because it is always supported and stretched by the bows If you look at the rear side curtains, they still fit but they have shrunk up in the back corner where they are unsupported even though the fasteners still attach because they are supported. I have noticed that the top portion will be banjo tight first thing on a cold morning but by afternoon will be relaxed after it has sat out in the sun. Same thing goes for the door curtains. When it is winter and cold, I have to zip my door curtains in the evening when I park in the unheated garage. If I don't and just leave them hang loosly all night in the cold, I may not get them zipped shut in the morning. Then in the afternoon/evening when they have sat out in the sun, they will relax and be quite easy to zip up. Little by little, the parts of the canopy that are not stretched by the bows shrink some each year. They can be stretched out though with a little pressure and some sun. Some of the shrinkage in the doors might be due to the vinyl windows. IDK. ... I don't know about other cotton fabrics. Some may be better, others worse.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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Wow you do nice work. Great looking Jeep and top. After reading your Sew Your Own Top tread and seeing the shrinkage, I am going to expecting to get 4 to 8 years out of a top and then plan on replacing it.
I like the picture showing the storm flap and door zippers. I would like to put a storm flap forward of the front door zipper as it going up the cowl. Now if it is time for me to start sewing. Everyone - Thank for all the input. |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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The shrink test has begun. I took the 21 ounce MILSPEC CCC-C-419 canvas and cut out two 10" x 10" pieces. Then coated one piece on both sides with Thompson's multi surface water seal and let the water seal dry for 24 hours. Then submerged the pieces in two separate buckets containing rain water. They will soak in the rain water for 24 hours and then will go into a drying cycle for 6 days. After that They will go back into the water for another 24 hour and then another 6 days of drying. I plan on doing 4 cycles. I will record the size of each sheet at the end of each 6 day drying cycle at the same time of the day. The drying will be done between two panes of glass with a .025 air gap between the sheets. The sheets of glass will be placed on a table on a black back ground. The drying cycle will be done outside in a location that will have full sun during the day. I will post the results.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Unkamonkey
Member Joined: 23 Mar. 2016 Location: Greeley CO Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
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It seems like you have a very scientific back ground and mind. I'll wait for the results of your test. |
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uncamonkey
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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One idea that I got about using zippers (by accident), is that if you use them, its a good idea to sew them on back behind the edge like this: .... this way, if any shrinkage does occur, either in a year or 10 years, you can cut and re-sew the zipper closer to the edge to allow for it.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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Shrink Test results on NSN is 8305-00-242-3593 /MILSPEC CCC-C-419 201 oz OD Canvas
I did the test as described in the thread - here are the results
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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So I am seeing 3% shrink in the Warp (machine direction) and no shrink in the weft (weave) direction. Adding Thompson's water seal retards the speed of the shrink but does not stop the shrink.
The fact that this Mil Spec CCC-C-419 21oz OD Canvas is not shrinking in the weft (weave/cross direction) might be something that could be used when building a top.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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JPet,
A bit of advice on fasteners. I am trying to find the Black Common Sense Turn Button fasteners 91-xb-78317-1g that are used on the top. These have the rivet style single whole bottom. I am thinking these are the way to go over the tap style turn button fasteners. Any idea where to get these in black. I did find some original Curtain Fasteners. Picked up a box with 12 NOS fasteners – real shot in the dark. These are ones with the sockets that mount into the tub. Four are required per CJ2A top. They are missing the backing rings but i think I can find or make some. I also pick up a set of the much hated Omix-ADA top bows. I will fix them to make the work base on my old original set. They arrived last week I have not had a chance to compare them and find out what is the issue. Hoping to get started soon aside from the fasteners I have everything else. Stev |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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I buy mine from Scovil Fasteners:
http://www.dotfasteners.com/common-sense-turn-buttons.html If you can use nickel plated double tall ones, I have about 1000 that I have no use for. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Unkel Dale
Member Joined: 08 Jan. 2012 Location: pittsburgh,pa Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Love the whole thing. Care to post up cut sizes and the pattern?
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Unkel Dale
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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I designed and sewed a five piece top for David's Detroit to Moab (April 2nd 2017 he leaves Detroit driving to Moab in his 2A ) trip using some of the design ideas contained in this thread.
This is an off roading trail top / road trip top meant to hold up in heavy weather and designed for easy of use on the trail. The main top is a WW2 designed variant of a Summer top using the roll bar as the middle bow and a simple conduit rear bow as supports. I used the current military vinyl (re-purposed surplus tarps) as the fabric for this project, attached the side curtain with zippers to the Summer top, Used the stock CJ2A buckles attaching points, Designed a Bio-Mimicry new style door - "Bat Wing Style Door". The Bat Wing door allows for it to have structure when fully deployed as a closed door, the top section can be unhooked and folded in to the Jeep to provide a open window (so you can get coffee at a drive through). The door can be further unhooked and folded / gathered along the windshield out of the way for no door trail uses.
I will see if I can get some pictures loaded. David still has to mount his rear bow pockets in order to get the top to deploy tightly in the back. His CJ2A has a 3A windshield and door attaching point that were used to attach the Summer top and front door edges. This project was completed in about 1 week in the evenings plus a long Saturday. David, Good travels on the road to Moab! Stev Edited by Stev - 29 Mar. 2017 at 4:13am |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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cavalier
Member Joined: 16 June 2016 Location: Detroit Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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The door isn't on in this pic, and the rear looks a little floppy, but that's just because I didn't have the right provisions for the rear bows (we just duct-taped the rear bows on for now). The top is excellent. Thank you a million times over, Bob. I'll keep you updated with this top as I journey across the U.S. to Utah. -David
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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The Bat Wind door is in the folded position for storage against the Passenger front windshield piller in the Photo David Posted above.
Stev / Bob
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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Bat Wing Door closed
Edited by russnj - 28 Mar. 2017 at 6:18pm |
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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That is the most innovative idea for a Jeep door I have ever seen! Excellent work!!!
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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