Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Modifications from original
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Jerry's Willyzuk Project
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Jerry's Willyzuk Project

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jerry's Willyzuk Project
    Posted: 06 Sep. 2018 at 4:16pm
An Abomination to All that is Good and Sacred

I’ve wanted a flatfender for a long time. I’m not sure how this project is going to turn out because I imagine dozens of pictures in my head of what I think a cool flatfender is supposed to be.

Is it going to be like Jpet’s Bam Bam? Metcalf’s Flatty? Mike Garner’s, Rick? Stan? Jeep Fever? John Cappa? Soni Honegger? Pewe? Well, I guess the answer is Yes! And No!

 

Back in 1988 I was 20 years old and bought my first new car, a shiny red 1988.5 Samurai, fresh off the dealer floor for $6500. I got $2000 off thanks to Ralph Nader’s roll-over scare and a Suzuki’s corresponding Dealer Rebate.  The first stop on the way home was the tire store for a new set of wheels and tires. 30x9.50x15s on 15x7 Outlaw II rims. I wanted my Samurai to be just like Ken “Zuk” Francisco’s that kept popping up in 4WD and Sport Utility Magazine. Eventually I came pretty close with SPOA suspension, stock springs, 31” tires, and 4.16-1 RockLobster transfer case gears. I ran open diffs and stock engine for years. Eventually, I “upgraded” to a Jeep YJ Wrangler and started the build process all over again. The Samurai became the favorite fun car for my Mom and Dad and after 15 years or so, it found a parking spot out behind the barn where it has sat for more than a decade since the last time it was started. My early neglect and exuberance had taken its toll on the poor thing.  Rust and decay are killers. A few years ago I bought a new frame with the intent to spruce it up and get back on the road. The amount of body-rust was intimidating along with the thin-ness of the sheet metal. The more I thought about it, the more I decided to do something “drastic”.

 

I found you guys thanks to Jpet’s videos on Youtube. I have been seeing your jeeps pop up on Facebook over the last few years and all of your’ videos are the inspiration for this build. I had looked around (and still look) for the right jeep to start this project. I think I will eventually build 3 Flatfenders to nearly the same specs. One for me and the wife, one for the son (14) and one for the daughter (10). I would love to trail ride together.

I had held a thought in the back of my mind to put a Willys body on the Samurai chassis for a long time. I eventually found several examples online to show I wasn’t alone.  Multiple guys have done a very nice job mating Willys to Zuk and confirmed that this isn’t a terrible idea.  The reactions they get range from cool to cruel. Hence, the Abomination.

One major difference in the frame between the Willys and the Zuk is the exaggerated dip in the belly of the Zuk. This is barely noticeable under Samurai sheetmetal but becomes, in my mind, a terrible eye-sore for the Willys. I have brainstormed lots of ideas to remedy this. Everything from boatside skidplates to a totally custom frame ala. Metcalf.  The relatively poor condition of my CJ2A body made my decision a little easier. I am going to section the body over the frame to keep the belly tight to the floor of the tub. I will rebuild the floor of the tub to fit as needed. The rear floor will be raised about 3 inches in the rear. I will move the little step down to the front about 6 inches forward to allow the main crossmember of the samurai frame to tuck into the Jeep body.

I found my donor body about 20 minutes from my house near Cincinnati on Craigslist. The seller was rebuilding his 1948 CJ2a and felt that the body was just too far gone. He had all new sheetmetal and tub and wanted this one out of his garage.  I was too late in arriving to pick up the front fenders, hood and windshield but the tub was still there.  He really wanted to just get it out of his garage. $40 and it was mine!!! I had looked at several old jeeps for sale in the under $1000 price range and all had tubs in significantly worse condition than this one. I was stoked.


I will be updating this thread as the build progresses.  I am currently removing axles from the samurai to swap over to the new frame.  This will allow me to get the Willys body aligned properly over the axles.



Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep. 2018 at 4:19pm
Quick Mock-up of Willys body on Zuk Frame
Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep. 2018 at 4:25pm
Rusty Floors

Has the original toolbox in good condition.  Missing the lid.  Floors have been repaired.

Frame position

The body will likely sit about here.  I can trim off this section of frame to make a cleaner installation.
Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep. 2018 at 4:37pm
Benefits of the Samurai Drivetrain

Drivetrain-wise I really like the durability of the Samurai parts. Especially when tire size is kept reasonable. I like the combination of 65-70 mph capability and compact package. I always got 20-25 mpg out of the Samurai and I could trail ride all day on 5 gallons of gas. The stock Samurai convertible weighs in at just over 2000lbs.  I expect this build to be very close to that number, or less, when completed.  Time will tell.

The axles provide excellent ground clearance with 31” tires, especially in the SPOA configuration. I will probably run 32" TSLs. The bottom of the frame is also fairly smooth with very little hanging down to snag obstacles. There are a few snag points which I will address. The transmission crossmember and the leaf spring hangers, primarily.

I will be addressing the crossmember by trimming the lower section and installing a skidplate. Same for the spring hangers. I will be welding minimal skidplates to the spring hangers to keep them from becoming a “hook” point.

The axles have 3.73 gears from the factory. The transfer case high range is 1.409-1. This gives an effective stock axle ratio of 5.26. The RockLobster transfer case gears give a low range ratio of 4.16-1 and 12% (1.58-1) reduction in high range. Transmission is a 5-speed with a first gear of 3.65-1 and 5th of 0.865-1.  Combined it makes a great combo for street or trail driving. Combinations can be improved, however, and I have picked up a 1994 Sidekick 5-speed and transfer case to build a “doubler(1.82-1)” box to give me another low range for even more options up to 103-1 low/low.  The sidekick transmission also provides the additional benefit of running a larger clutch and a heavier flywheel. I will also add a ¼” flywheel ring to increase rotational mass even more. If I decide to go to a larger tire, I have the option of lowering the axle gears as low as 5.38.



Example of Willys body on Suzuki frame. (not mine)



Another example. This one with Toyota axles and engine.





And another.  This one with suzuki drivetrain.

Back to Top
Unkamonkey View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Mar. 2016
Location: Greeley CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2093
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep. 2018 at 5:33pm
It's up to you to build what you want to have. Most people will look at my 3B and believe it is stock until they pick up on the PTO winch. Okey dokey, Pipes out of both sides, so it has a V6. Crawl under it and they may notice it has a overdrive. If they sort of know they will see the 11" brakes and you can't see the Powerlock in the rear. Springs? Build it for yourself. My other Jeep is pretty much stock except for the electric winch in the front, I did the power brakes on it and I had to upgrade the rear axle. Other than the winch, It looks stock.
uncamonkey
Back to Top
nofender View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 10 May 2016
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 2018
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nofender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep. 2018 at 10:39pm
This is HORRIBLE! you will burn in the deepest depths of hell for such heresy! How dare you! 

Okay that was a joke. 

I've said it many times before. The Jeep is the Model A of the 4WD world. There is no right or wrong. But realize you will get reactions ranging from - kill you and all your offspring....to....that's pretty badass dude. 

The things I have done to 2A's, last i checked are illegal in 13 states. So you can count me among the run what you brung crowd. I appreciate and will built a correct version some day. But i have little issue with modifying one. 

I've wheeled with many a Zuk and can attest to their toughness. Go with your plan. I'd love to see it. Go for it! 
46 CJ2a rockcrawler
46 CJ2a - 26819
46 Bantam T3c "4366"
47 Bantam T3C - 11800
68-ish CJ5
Back to Top
NCtoy View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Aug. 2005
Location: NC
Status: Offline
Points: 507
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NCtoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep. 2018 at 2:23am
If you’re building one to wheel much it’s going to be modified anyway. If it’s only parts or already modified, there’s no reason to feel bad about it. If done right, the casual observer will never know anyway. 

I always liked the Suzuki’s and have thought the willys tub on one would be a good match for a more modern wheeler with the old school look. I had an early cj5 I almost put a set of Toyota axles under, but ended up selling the jeep. 
Back to Top
Jonny Zuk View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Sep. 2015
Location: Tulsa, OK
Status: Offline
Points: 26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jonny Zuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct. 2018 at 6:09am
Hi,
Longtime Samurai owner here. The funny thing is that my dad bought our first Samurai over 30 years ago because it reminded him of a CJ2A his friend had in the late 50’s. I became hooked soon after I started driving the Samurai, and I have driven across the US several times. I even shipped a Samurai  to/from Germany during my military service. 

I too have strongly contemplated building a CJ2A hybrid with a Samurai frame and drivetrain and a CJ2A body. I have around 6 running Samurais, along with additional frames and drivetrains. I could easily piece together a running chassis for a CJ2A and then drop a rougher, patched CJ body on the frame. Still looking for a stock CJ2A first though. 
Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct. 2018 at 4:55pm
Thanks for the feedback guys. I’ve been working on it here and there. I placed the grill and hood on the samurai to see what engine placement would look like. 

You can see in this pic that engine will need to move back or the front axle needs to go forward. Right now the plan is a little of both. I’ll probably shift the front axle 1-2” forward and the drivetrain 5-6 inches back. 

Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov. 2018 at 11:42pm
I’ve been working on getting the body placed. I should have the remainder of the tub cut to get it as low as possible in the next few days. 

Right now I have about 11.5 inches above the tire to the tub. After the final cut I think it will be closer to 8 inches. This looks really high for a flatfender but much lower overall than my Samurai. I might need to go with different springs.


Back to Top
mikec4193 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2009
Location: Malta NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov. 2018 at 5:01pm
Hey JeepN95

I love this build...I would love to know how come the Suzuki can run down the road at 65mph and the ole Willys struggles to do 45mph??? (a white knuckler at that speed too I might add)...

So what did those Japanese engineers know that we didn't know back in the day??

I will be watching this build for sure...

MikeC
I am the squirrel....
Back to Top
jasonbass View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar. 2018
Location: little rock ark
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonbass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

All here accept the standard Willys flat fender look to be traditionally appealing.
The flat fender appeal is certainly due in large part to long term familiarity.
But lets face it the universal was only designed to be functional and never was intended as an artistic impression.
We mainly cherish it due to our long term familiarity with its functional simple lines.

I for one cannot say that a hood mounted spare "is" or "is not" a good idea.
I certainly expect it can be functional and serve a purpose if done well.
But due to rarity of examples it obviously must have multiple drawbacks.
If one attempts a hood mounted spare they certainly would do well to produce the most practical and simplest design.

fully agree with you. im working on a simple design now based off of the "sas" one i found, instead of just buying the one i found online. ive been thinking about your idea a few posts ago.
You have only to believe if you wish to achieve. That rhymed. Unintentional - Rod Kimble


Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 8:56pm
It is cold in this old barn but I did get the rear cut so that I could get the body lower on the frame. 

Overall the distance between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fender is 8.5".  I, of course, have some cleaning up to do on the trim and then I'll weld in new steel for the rear.  Once this is finished I plan to locate all the body mounts and attach the body.  Next, I'll cut out the front floor and begin work placing the engine and transmission.  I think I will be about 4" rearward and 2" down.

Pics:
Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by mikec4193 mikec4193 wrote:

Hey JeepN95

I love this build...I would love to know how come the Suzuki can run down the road at 65mph and the ole Willys struggles to do 45mph??? (a white knuckler at that speed too I might add)...

So what did those Japanese engineers know that we didn't know back in the day??

I will be watching this build for sure...

MikeC

Thanks!

I think the main difference between the two is the engine.  The little zuk engine is comfortable at 4500 all day.  6500 is redline.

They are fun, for sure.
Back to Top
berettajeep View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 03 Feb. 2009
Location: Astoria OR
Status: Offline
Points: 4304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote berettajeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 12:44am
Very cool. I've always wanted a Samurai, it just never happened although I did look at one probably 20 years ago.   

I spy a FSJ!
Back to Top
wild1joker View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 Nov. 2018
Location: Fayetteville N.
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wild1joker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 9:45pm
any updates on this build?
going to follow along,
Back to Top
JeepN95YJ View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 June 2018
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepN95YJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:18am
No progress since the last update. The Barn is not heated and it has been pretty cold here. 

I will be visiting a friend this weekend to borrow a plasma cutter to cut out a few parts I have in mind. I'd like to have the body position locked down and the engine in place by the end of February. Once I have that finished i will move everything to my home garage for more rapid progress.
Back to Top
Mark W. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 09 Nov. 2014
Location: Silverton, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 7923
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:59am
Funny you should mention Samuri's rolling over in 1988 -89 I pulled off the freeway at Grant's Pass Oregon on our way to a Mountain man rendezvous  and there at a body shop lined up like a kids toy trucks were 3 Samuri's that had all rolled at least once if not multiple times. I guess the locals had done some testing on their own.

Be following your project.
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.