Lock-Rite in the snow?? |
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LesBerg
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Posted: 06 Nov. 2017 at 4:33pm |
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I know a lot of people here use the Lock-Rite unit. Does anyone have winter experience with them?
I'm looking at axle options and what I need to do to have good on- and off-road traction in loose snow, and packed snow & ice. I'm thinking that even a selectable locker won't be the solution to street driving in the snow. It seems to me that a pair of posi units would be better. Thoughts? I'm considering a Dana 44 with a 30-spline conversion and an Eaton TrueTrack, but that's about $2500 in the future. I like the TrueTrack because of the type of differential it is - it's a Torsen-style unit similar to what's used in the Humvees. It's a limited slip that you can 'lock-up' by applying a bit of brake. I haven't looked into front options yet. I will be keeping the 5.38s, though... |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6123 |
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Les.
I have Lock Rites front and back. They work great in a straight line, but a slippery surface defeats the ratcheting action if there is ANY kind of torque applied in a turn, especially with narrow NDT tires. Makes for fun drifting action though. Sometimes on really slick snow, ice, or mud having the front axle locked can be slightly problematic in turns because one tire works against the other and then they both break loose and you slide straight ahead. I've found with the Lock Rite that if I put it in 2wd in these situation I can get some steering control back. Here's a video of some "Dash Cam" shots of snow wheeling. I got some fat tires on for this run. The actual snow wheeling action starts at around the 6:00 mark. In this 2nd video at around the 10:55 mark I get hung up on a little wash out across the road that is slippery mud. I was turning my wheels right and I would get in the dip and slide left because the tires were locked together and causing slippage in the turn. I even had my front dual wheels on for this run. In the end I got over it by shifting out of 4wd, taking torque off of the Lock Rite which allows the wheels to free wheel independently and maintain some traction in the turn. Edited by smfulle - 06 Nov. 2017 at 5:16pm |
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LesBerg
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Damn, I love your videos! Thanks for the input.
I love the birch at 4:10. Beautiful trees. Siena's footage starting at 8:10 is exactly the kind of roads I'm building for, but it needs to stay streetable. Edited by LesBerg - 06 Nov. 2017 at 5:27pm |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3183 |
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I had a 71 Ford F-250 4x4 truck that I installed Dana-Spicer Trac-Lok diffys in both front and rear. It didn't do bad in mud or deep snow, but was down right dangerous in light snow and ice. I had better control on ice in 2wd than 4wd. Because in 4wd all wheels were turning the truck had no "reference point" in the road to operate against and it would tend to go sideways. In 2wd while the rear tires were both turning, they had the front tires of the truck holding the truck in position. I considered putting the open diffy in the front again, but never got around to it. My oldest daughter asked me to give it to her for a wedding present in 2002, so I did. It was the truck she learned to drive in.
Anyway, that my experience with limited slip differentials. Good offroad, but can be hazardous if you don't know what you are doing on light snow or ice on pavement. HTH |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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LesBerg
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Honestly, this is pretty much what I expected to hear. Thanks for chiming in.
I think the long-term goal will be TrueTracks on both ends. Until then, it's still hard to stop a Willys with chains on all four corners. |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2383 |
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Les,
Our 1946 has Powerloks in the front and rear. There are several threads out here in 2A Land of guys out West (Portland area I think), driving on ice, -they don't like them at all. I am sure someone of them will chime in and give your the details. From what I have experienced with the factory locker in our 2006 TJ Rubicon it is pretty nice. We can use the 4WD and if it gets cross axled we just lock in the rear. I do like the Powerloks for field work in Ohio.
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Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
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64CJ5
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 15 Nov. 2013 Location: NE Wyoming Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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Les, I have the factory Powr-lok in our 64 CJ-5. On snow packed roads with some power on, not coasting, it will push straight through a curve. Really gets your attention the first time or two.
We had the factory locker in the '01 Wrangler TJ Sport and it was really scary on packed snow/ice. Had an Eaton E-Locker installed and winter driving is much more enjoyable. I believe open differentials / selectable lockers for winter driving is the way to go. Tom |
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64CJ5 "Eeyore"
01TJ "Tigger" 52 M38 Severely demilitarized, "Popeye" The Coast Guard Jeep. 14 JK "Jake" To Trust Government Defys Both History and Reason. PUBLIC LAND Owner/User |
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Mike S
Member Joined: 20 May 2006 Location: West Coast Status: Offline Points: 2318 |
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I had a Ford 4X4 with AWD and 4WD. It was treacherous in AWD in light snow and ice. It was OK with 4WD, but I don't really like lockers in the front. I had a FJZ80 (TLC) with front. rear and center lockers. I almost NEVER ran it with the front lockers dialed in. My CJ2A has rear LockRights installed, but an open front. I avoid permanent (always on) front axle lockers - especially on snow and ice.
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'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
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Unkamonkey
Member Joined: 23 Mar. 2016 Location: Greeley CO Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
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I have a Power Lock in the rear of my 3B and a V6. It is pretty much undriveable on snow and ice unless you put it in 4X4. It works great offroad. I usually revert back to my'86 Volvo in the winter. It will go through 12" of snow. Huh, 2 wheel drive?
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uncamonkey
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3183 |
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Yeah, but an '86 Volvo ain't got flat fenders! |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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otto
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7923 |
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My choice is to go with a selectable locker like the Eaton E locker allowing a stock normal differential operation or fully locked up like a spool.
Having driven on very slick surfaces a lot in cars and pickups as well as buses and trucks I do not like being shoved in a straight line when the Posi/Limited Slip Locker what ever does not allow the differential to work. I used to teach school buss drivers how to drive on snow and Ice. In Oregon we do not have the same kind of snow they do in the mid west. It normally has a layer of Black Ice under it and we do not use Salt here so you get VERY slick conditions without studs or chains. And for the last 14+ years I have driven Construction Dump truck for a Paving and Site development co. And have a lot of hours on wet slick muddy work and dump sites and we only use our lockers to get us out of the trouble we get into with only one axle in normal operation. Edited by Mark W. - 07 Nov. 2017 at 1:24am |
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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wheelie
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 25 Jan. 2011 Location: red lion. pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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Seems like that Wrangler never even spins a tire in the snow, even when pulling another vehicle out. All technique or what?
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Willy M
Member Joined: 18 July 2017 Location: Dyer, TN Status: Offline Points: 233 |
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Running NDTs on slick hard surfaces can be a problem in and of itself. My Dad's old '47 Chevy 2 ton wrecker had NDTs on the rear (he got a deal on them when he was building the wrecker). I went out with him on a call once on icy roads and the rear was trying to slide all over the place. I was driving, but handed it over to him as he was more used to it's being treacherous on slick surfaces. Putting the rear axle in low did help some.
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Willy M
Member Joined: 18 July 2017 Location: Dyer, TN Status: Offline Points: 233 |
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I've never had much problem with all terrains on any of my 4wds.
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LesBerg
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2014 Location: Athol, ID Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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I thought I had replied to this but I don't see my post anywhere...
Are we all on the same page with differentiating lockers from limited slip units? I get that lockers rock for trails, and LS units aren't usually as capable. The catch is that I'm hoping to be able to drive mine year-round. It'll see a lot of packed snow and ice. If you watched the two videos Stan posted, understand that ALL of the forest service/logging roads out here are like that ravine where the sand rail went off the road. The mountain sides generally range from 30 degrees to near-vertical. During hunting season, there's enough traffic that it takes less than a day for any snow on the road to be packed and glazed. From what I'm hearing here, I don't know that I want to drive those kinds of roads in the snow on lockers. Tires of choice, once I get them will likely be 30-31 inch narrow A/Ts as opposed to M/Ts, unless I end up on Super Traxions... If I ever end up with a set of NDTs, they'll be strictly 'summer' tires. We had an early snow this year. Two weekends ago we all went on the St. Joe river cruise on Lake Coeur d'Alene. It was a beautiful fall day. Last weekend we got hit with 14 inches of snow, most of which is still on the ground. The last thing I need is to be caught out hunting 50 miles into the mountains in a snow storm with the wrong tires. The only phone service you'll get is satellite, and there are many places it's not reliable. Not that I have a sat-phone - too expensive for my blood. Edited by LesBerg - 09 Nov. 2017 at 1:25am |
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1948 CJ2A 157713 24" Stretch "Old Ironsides"
1st Armored Div 6th Infantry Reg 3rd Infantry Bn Headquarters Company #161 rubigo in quo speramus - "In Rust we Trust" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4139 |
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Maybe the best year round solution is having two sets of axles.
Open differentials both front and rear in the winter with a modified shift rail twin stick Dana 20 so you can use front drive only (AKA FRONT DIGGS). Front Diggs will give you full steering control when under power on the slick stuff .... Selectable lockers might be O.K. Not sure if they effect the steering on snow/ice when disengaged ? Ask Jeff bout that ! Myself I have 4 sets of axles all with front and rear Powr Loks..... Edited by oldtime - 09 Nov. 2017 at 2:41am |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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David Fillman
Member Joined: 03 Nov. 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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I have Lock Rites front and rear in my 1945 Willys. They provide excellent off road traction but make for very wide turns in 4WD. I removed the interlock in my Browne Lipe model 18 transfer case so I can select 2WD low range to make sharp turns easier off road. Take it easy in 2WD low or you will snap an axle. No big deal in the Willys with rear floating hubs, but big deal in a CJ2A.
On road I have to release one of the front hubs or steering will be very jerky on hard top in 2WD high range. The rear diff will clank and rattle going around a turn. You can feel it grabbing and releasing. Apply throttle in a turn on hard top and be ready for instant power oversteer due to the rear locker engaging. The MB with junk NDTs will go through up to 24" of snow depending on how hard packed it is. I compete in local Jeep events and was having a hard time going through an obstacle course some years ago. I had made it 3/4s of the way through beyond where many drivers had given up when I realized I had forgotten to lock the front hubs. That gives you some idea of how well the rear Lock Rite was working.
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Dave Fillman
www.fillmanmachining.com 1946 Bantam T3-C trailer 1945 Willys MB 1968 Hemi-Cuda |
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