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Manual steering conversion

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Siskiwit View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 12:44pm
Im going to start fixing up a ‘48 and am wondering what my options are to get rid of the Ross setup and install a manual steering box with a pto winch. I have a Ramsey 200r which I would really like to use but I know room on the front is minimal. Most people do the Saginaw conversion but it leaves little room for the winch. I have read on this site that someone bolted up a corvette c3 box, but the ratio is only 16:1. The Willy’s is going to be a hunting rig and will be going through some mud, over and through stuff. I like that the c3 box leaves room up front for the pto shaft and winch but the ratio bothers me. The Jeep will have 32” tires so the leverage will be needed I think. Educate me what I should do.
'48 2a - '46 2a - '54 3b - '70 cj5 and a bunch of accessories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkwudz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 1:57pm
i have some pics here, i used the AA kit,  but mostly just for pieces,  you are pretty much on your own for making it all fit and work.   Took some effort but worth it in the end.  Used a manual box,  and still fit the winch in between the frame rails.  lots of people have done it, grab a coffee and start reading

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 3:43pm
I have fitted Saginaw manual and power gear boxes into a flatty and  those alone are a tight fit concerning fore / aft positioning.
I think I still have a detailed write up on that over on the 3B forum.

The area between CJ frame horns will be stuffed full when fitting in both a Saginaw box and the long Ramsey winches.
But I think it may be easier if you reverse the Ramsey PTO so it sends the PTO shaft up the passenger side.
You will also need to reverse the input shaft on the winch itself so it's on the right side of jeep.

I too will probably fit up one of my Saginaw box's and Ramsey that same way.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 3:48pm
Siskiwit, 

Been kicking this around - interesting you brought it up.  - You might look at the Toyota TFS steering box - the 88 4runner box looks like it might work.  It could be mounted on the outside of the drivers side frame rail on the forward side of where the axle goes.  Looks like it might work as a replacement for the Ross style box for offroad use.  The PTO winch would not be an issue.  Also use the MB style side exhaust to eliminate exhaust fabrication.

Here is a random link that shows the steering box:

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1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siskiwit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 4:13pm
I have a Koenig king also I’m figuring I’ll go that route. I was hoping to get some extra length of 5/16 cable on the Ramsey. I’ll just stay with the Saginaw conversion 24:1 seems better for my deal. I just thought someone may have found a solution to the problem.
'48 2a - '46 2a - '54 3b - '70 cj5 and a bunch of accessories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siskiwit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 5:50pm
Just took a look at the Toyota box link mentioned above and it almost looks like the corvette c3 box. I’m going to do some research on it. I hope it’s a solution to the conundrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov. 2018 at 7:06am
I have an 87 toyota pickup manual box that mounts to the outside of the frame rail.  I have it for the same reason you're wanting yours.  PTO shafts want to occupy the same space a saginaw box does.

I'll see if I can get some pictures put up soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siskiwit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov. 2018 at 4:15pm
Thanks, I’m very interested in your setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov. 2018 at 12:10am



Not my setup, but almost identical to it.  Haven't had a chance to make it out to the shop to grab pictures of mine yet.


Edited by Mike. - 28 Nov. 2018 at 12:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 1:51am
Originally posted by Siskiwit Siskiwit wrote:

Im going to start fixing up a ‘48 and am wondering what my options are to get rid of the Ross setup and install a manual steering box with a pto winch. I have a Ramsey 200r which I would really like to use but I know room on the front is minimal. Most people do the Saginaw conversion but it leaves little room for the winch. I have read on this site that someone bolted up a corvette c3 box, but the ratio is only 16:1. The Willy’s is going to be a hunting rig and will be going through some mud, over and through stuff. I like that the c3 box leaves room up front for the pto shaft and winch but the ratio bothers me. The Jeep will have 32” tires so the leverage will be needed I think. Educate me what I should do.

I'm one running the C3 box and have been doing so since about 1974 on my 3B.  Without the power assist, the C3 box works at least as good as the Ross with respect to steering effort.  The only downside is the recirculating ball system doesn't mute feedback like the Ross and you need to make sure errant fingers/thumbs don't get between steering wheel spokes in the rocks.  Adding the power assist with the pitman arm control valve (more C3) completely eliminated unwanted feedback.  And that 16:1 ratio is great heading down the highway.

I'm in the process of installing a new front axle and the steering arms on it are longer than the D25/27/44 closed knuckles so I had to move the sector box forward for the tie rod drag link clearance.  I have decided to retain the C3 steering but use a PSC assist cylinder instead of the GM version.

Original mounting:

The new mounting has the front of the box about a 1/2" overlapping the bumper-3.125 inches farther forward than in photo.
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siskiwit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2018 at 1:44pm
I’m liking the Toyota manual box setup above. Looks like the steering shaft is above the frame rail which is good. As for reversing the pto, I’m using a push pull cable operated one from a FC because I have it and think it’s different. I do have a couple of different pto’s If I can’t make this one work and try reversing them. Thanks
'48 2a - '46 2a - '54 3b - '70 cj5 and a bunch of accessories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec. 2018 at 1:58pm
You can also try a ’67-74 Volvo 140 Series manual steering box behind the cross member. 
Frans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec. 2018 at 2:11pm
Frans,

Any photos of the Volvo 140 manual steering box installed on a CJ2A/3A/3B frame?  Interested to see how it is done.




Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec. 2018 at 9:14pm
Here is my solution, Duffer inspired. 2004 Grand Cherokee box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec. 2018 at 9:59pm
I'm going a slightly different route. I did a classic Saginaw Manual 525 box conversion. And while I am not dealing with a PTO winch. I am still to narrow to sink an electric down between the frame rails like I want so I am planning on narrowing the electric winch. I watched a You tube and read a thread on one of the other 4X4 forums where a guy showed how he cut down the drum and the hardware to narrow a Warn winch. After reading that I took a look at the Harbor Freight Badlands winch I am planning on using and it would be no more difficult to narrow. I only need to loose about 1.5" to make it fit properly so I doubt I loose even 10 ft of the synthetic rope I plan to use on my winch.

Not sure if a PTO winch can be narrowed but with as much cable as them big drums hold I sure wouldn't think it would hurt the use of the winch much if you could.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2018 at 8:57am
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

Frans,

Any photos of the Volvo 140 manual steering box installed on a CJ2A/3A/3B frame?  Interested to see how it is done.


Stev, unfortunately I do not have the jeep anymore. 
If I remember correctly, the steering box sat inside the chassis near the shock bracket with the "head" on top of the chassis. I drilled the bolt holes through the chassis and welded pipes into the holes as supports. I think I had to move the shock bracket a bit. The pitman arm shows to the front. I used a solid center steering rod between the two idler arms with a tie rod end with extra hole on the right hand side. The Pitman arm connects to that hole with a tie rod. The pitman arm had two holes, so I used one hole for a steering shock connected to the cross member.
I used a junk yard steering column with a universal to connect to the steering box.
This Volvo steering box works really very well with very little modifications, as the pitman arm is not reversed, so the steering box can sit behind the cross member and not in front of the grill.
I hope it helps.
Frans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2018 at 9:06am
Frans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2018 at 1:21pm
Frans,

Did you put a front PTO winch on with this Volvo steering conversion?  If so who made the winch?  Thanks for the information!


Edited by Stev - 05 Dec. 2018 at 1:34pm
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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