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Musings on batteries and winches

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tumbleweed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tumbleweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:23pm
https://youtu.be/TNkmH3R9u70

I have always wanted to try this and its CHEAP!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by tumbleweed tumbleweed wrote:

https://youtu.be/TNkmH3R9u70

I have always wanted to try this and its CHEAP!
 
Well that's just fine Weed. We'll see if we can get you into a predicament at the BHR so the rest of us can sit in the shade and watch you do your magic..Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stude-a-willys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 6:49pm
I'm glad you have a roll bar, Stan. 

This 6 volt thing is the real limiter!

The problem is the amp draw on a winch near stall, (and let's face it that's where we use them an awful lot) is really high! 

Two 6 volt batteries with an isolator/combiner that can handle the 465 amp load is expensive. Might be cheaper to switch to 12 volts with a 12si alternator. The highest amp "stock" 12si can deliver 94 amps! That's about 4 horsepower to turn it. Grandpa can do that at idle! As long as the hood stays down, no one will notice Grandpa Jeep has gone 12 volts. 

I have spent all your money and picked out the perfect winch for you. The WARN M6000 Short Drum Portable. It should be about $350 used if you can find one. Warn part number 39116. 


You can weld in a 2" receiver behind the front bumper. Hide the hole with the license plate mounted to a 2" draw bar stuck in the hole. Few will notice the stealth front receiver behind the bumper. When you need the winch, pull the car tag, slip in the winch you have stowed in the back of the willys, and plug it in with the giant Anderson Power Pole connector. The winch weighs 66# with the wire rope and steel hawse. 

OK, I haven't convinced you to go 12V yet.
Borrow the 40 pound, 12V bat-rey from the Chevy and put it in a batterybox in the back of the jeep. 
This winch at max load of 6000#, max amps 465,  is 10' per minute. 

Peukert Number:
So an 80Ah battery at 465 amp discharge rate can only deliver 43 amp hours. 
If you want to avoid damaging the battery, you don't want your depth of discharge to exceed 80%. That will give you .074 hours or 4.4 MINUTES of winching at maximum pull. that's about 45' of winching on the car battery at maximum pull. Enough for Pritchet Canyon? Maybe... 

If you could pump 50 amp/hours back into the battery driving between Chewy and the rock pile with that 12si alternator, it wouldn't be an issue!
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

Originally posted by rocnroll rocnroll wrote:

So why not engineer a winch 'like Grandpa would have' out of a 6 volt starter and a coupling. We have just seen one with an aviation starter..

That way you can just carry two or three extra starters with you when you need 'em.

That way it would just look like Grandpa had been to the Starter Depot.


Well... Jeff could do it, and you could do it, and my Grampa could do it, but engineering by me.......




Well not selling you short Stan but that was really directed at Jeff anyway as to what he was adding....I should have actually quoted his statement and it wouldn't have been confusing.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 7:33pm
Stan,

If you are going to put a winch on the Jeep put something that holds at least 100+ feet of winch line.  Unless you get stuck in a soft rut with a handy anchor point - you will want the extra length.  If you put a 50 foot cable on your winch, you can only use about 30 to 35 of cable and still have the required drum wraps to keep the drum wrapped safely.

One thing to consider - there are so many Riggs with winches - You might just want be the guy that everyone helps out and keep the old school look of Grampa Jeep!  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freedom21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by tumbleweed tumbleweed wrote:

https://youtu.be/TNkmH3R9u70

I have always wanted to try this and its CHEAP!

There's always this way too...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

Stan,

One thing to consider - there are so many Riggs with winches - You might just want be the guy that everyone helps out and keep the old school look of Grampa Jeep!  


I've been that guy for a while and I don't really mind for the most part. There are some obstacles the are awkward to winch from a 2nd vehicle. Chewy Hill being one. 

i haven't bought anything or committed to anything yet, but I'm on the verge. Those small ATV winches are pretty unobtrusive if you put them low behind the bumper.  They don't pull as much power either. The one I'm looking at has a 1.5 hp motor. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:09am
90% of the folks that have winches use them 100% of the time on other vehicles other than their own.
Seems simple to me.
Be in between others who have a winch.


Edited by flatfender47 - 17 May 2018 at 2:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:42am
As an FYI, I use a 3600 lb ATV winch to pull the cars (at least the ones without engines) up and down the driveway and around the yard as necessary. Luckily don't have to do it often, but when I do I I use an 11 amp hour 12-volt motorcycle battery, is 16 amp hour 12-volt motorcycle battery, or a standard size 12 volt car battery. With the 11 amp power I get maybe two pools up the driveway. The 16 amp hour gets me maybe three or four. The car battery seems to last a decent amount of time.

I have a number of cars, some original some not. I have yet to regret the 12-volt upgrade. It just makes everything easier.  I only 6 volt car right now is the CJ2, but I don't do 4x4 so no real need for a winch.  I'd go PTO (expensive and comparatively complex) or bite the bullet and do the 12 volt upgrade. You can put in a stereo, charge your phone, connect 120 volt converter, it opens up a world. Particularly if you're outdoors.

As for that 6 to 12 volt power converter, it works great, I am actually using that in my CJ so I have a radio. But it is rated for a maximum of 10 amps. I am pretty sure any winch is going to pull more than that.  You were talking a lot of amps at 6 Volts for a winch.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:16am
So in the course of two days I’ve gone from:

1, I don’t need a winch, I have friends and a tow strap.
to
2. I want to run Pritchett and if I can’t make it up Chewy I need a winch cuz the odd angle is hard to get a straight pull with a strap or friend’s winch.
to
3. I could put two 6 volt batteries in and switch back and forth from series and parallel.
to
4. That’s too complicated. I should just get a stand alone 12 volt battery and 12 volt winch.
To
5. That’s not enough power available, I should stop being a nit wit and switch to 12 volt system.
To
6. I don’t need a winch, I have friends and a tow strap (and I’m just going to drive up Chewy without help anyway.)

Thanks for holding my hand through it guys. I’m sure this will bubble up again in my want-to brain storage space, but for now I think I’m going to go back to trying to figure out how to make a dent in my tub big enough so the overdrive shifter linkage is not jammed up against it.


Edited by smfulle - 17 May 2018 at 4:25am
Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:15am
This is why you titled the thread "Musings....." All good, Stan. 

FWIW, if I were you, I'd start saving for one of the PTO units driven off the crankshaft. Tons of "cool factor," seems like a good fit for Grandpa's Jeep, simple, and nothing hanging down to smash on the rocks. Just my .02.


Edited by wheelie - 17 May 2018 at 4:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:56am
Originally posted by smfulle smfulle wrote:

...but for now I think I’m going to go back to trying to figure out how to make a dent in my tub big enough so the overdrive shifter linkage is not jammed up against it.


Who's got a 3-lb. sledgehammer handy?  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:28pm
Yes I fully agree with Dave. 
A rusty old but still functional crank driven winch would look "way cool" (AKA period correct) for Grampa's Jeep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:15pm
I have used my high lift jack to recover from a stuck jeep situation, no battery required 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by jeeper50 - 17 May 2018 at 6:18pm

Belleview ol skool winch soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

I have used my high lift jack to recover from a stuck jeep situation, no battery required 
 

high lift jacks are awesome in some situations, but they won't get you up Chewy Hill.


Stan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:11pm
Stan,
 
I have 12 volt in my Jeep so winch choices were plentiful. Board member Realdeal told me about a HOT deal on a Warn M8000 on Amazon a few years ago. They had it for $499.00 plus free shipping. Too good to pass up....Warn also had a $100.00 rebate deal going so I sent in the paperwork and they sent me 2 checks for $100.00 each...so the winch ended up costing me $299.00....Smile
 
As to your battery question, I am a huge fan of Optima...Last year I replaced my 19 year old Optima red top in the Jeep. I think that speaks for itself. I doubt I will ever get that kind of life out of any other battery including the new Optimas but they are a great battery in my opinion.
 
Good luck with whatever you decide. I love your Jeep and your stories! Smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:01pm
I agree on the Optima.....I don't really understand the bad feelings I ve heard on them. ( not in this post just in general)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by rocnroll rocnroll wrote:

I agree on the Optima.....I don't really understand the bad feelings I ve heard on them. ( not in this post just in general)


I've never used one, but I use to sell a few batteries. From that end they seemed to come in as cores about as often as other top brands. 

Main thing I've always had against them was that they are $100 more than their nearest competition. If $100 saves your butt, it's cheap, but if it just gets you a funny looking battery with a red or yellow top its expensive. So real, actual testimony of past performance is good to get. 
Stan
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