Newbie jitters with diagnosis and rebuild of l134 |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 19 Aug. 2017 at 10:04pm |
|
Recently acquired a L134 that was said to be running but sat for a bit of time. When I first received it, I can turn motor by hand and hear some compression. Decided to pull plugs but two of the four were rusted so bad they broke off. Used a square easy out and removed rather easy. Next thing I decided to do is remove head because some of t)3 spark plug rust went into the cylinder. After a 2 day battle, the head broke free and lifted off.
I cannot see or feel any ridges on top of cylinder but both valves and piston top has carbon. What should be my next step? Hoping I can get away with re-gasketing and maybe new rings if needed. What should I look for?
Edited by Kulpfarm - 28 Aug. 2017 at 2:42am |
||
Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Whats your goal a 20K jeep you put put around the yard and the occasional trip to Dairy Queen Or a Daily driver you can put 100K on at Hwy Speeds with proper maintenance?
Cause putting new rings in a cylinder already broken in with other rings will only wear the bore out more while the new rings take a set. It is always the better option to do everything the first time. |
||
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
with two very young kids and tight funds, I wanted to make this Jeep a driver and fix it up as I go over time. Thought I could do minimal engine work to buy time to when I can afford a complete rebuild. If it's better to wait, then Ill need to wait
|
||
Red Willy
Member Joined: 18 Mar. 2014 Location: Lake Villa IL Status: Offline Points: 512 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You can clean the carbon up, confirm all the valves are moving andput a new head gasket on and run a compression check. If compression is OK, run it. Find out what other issues you have and prioritize the repairs as money allows.
|
||
Glen
49 CJ3A |
||
Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
OK so to me it sounds like your best bet is as Red Willy says. Clean up the top of the pistons and valves. Make sure the valves are properly adjusted. Make sure the Head is flat. Put a New head gasket on it and run a compression test. If you have better then 90 psi and a variation no greater then 10% you should already have a decent running engine. Run it until either the Oil pressure drops below acceptable (meaning most likely worn bearings) or the compression drops to the point you are loosing power (80 psi is getting close to the bottom IMHO)
When you go to put on the head do some searching here for recommendations and be sure to have a shop manual (downloadable from the pages manuals page). |
||
Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
||
1947-cj2a
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Sep. 2015 Location: MISSOURI Status: Offline Points: 670 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
First thing is go over the brakes! Everything else is just icing on the cake!
After getting the motor to run, what shape is your wiring, fuel system like, is the tank a total rust bucket? Is it six or twelve volt system. One thing I would do before I got started is remove the body and all the panels. I did mine the hard way and it sure would have been a lot easier working out the bugs on the mechanical system without the body on. Hell I'm still working out the bugs. Good Luck and Welcome aboard.
|
||
RICH
1947 cj2a (Toy From Hell) |
||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
thanks for all the great advice. Brakes have all been refresh and in working order. Tank was in rather good shape cleaned and painted. I also have a brand new wiring harness from walcks waiting to be installed.
Body requires more work. Rear floors are shot and currently have thick sheet metal welded in place (will be replaced). The only other thing at the moment is that I do not have a windshield.
|
||
Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The brakes are good? Make sure it steers next, then do the head gasket and get it running.
|
||
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
|
||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I made a decision to move towards a complete rebuild. Since I have time, how can I break this engine rebuild into affordable parts. Do I break it done completely and start with the bare block at machine shop to clean and check?
|
||
berettajeep
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 03 Feb. 2009 Location: Astoria OR Status: Offline Points: 4304 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That is what I did. Take pictures and keep everything labeled, where it came out of and which direction. |
||
cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
X2!
Take lots & lots of pictures. When you feel that you have more than enough, take even more. These days with digital photos, taking tons of pictures does not cost much. Just time. Spend the time, it will save you much more time in the end, when it comes time to reassemble the engine. Try to get at least three of each fitting, +/or bracket, before removing it, all from different angles. Six would be better, take some from different distances. After you remove anything, take at least three pictures of what it was covering. Also take pictures of what was removed as well. Be sure to get the side that was hidden by the block, or what ever it was attached to. There is no such thing as too many pictures. AMHIK. Oh, Be sure to keep at least two copies of each photo. Keep them on different devices. Again, AMHIK! IHTH, Cpt Logger. Edited by cpt logger - 24 Aug. 2017 at 3:46am |
||
wadoyado
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 29 Sep. 2016 Location: Mi. Status: Offline Points: 728 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the jeep you've been driving all your life" (Mickey Mantle paraphrase)
|
||
cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Looking over this whole tread, I would like to say a few things. First, I rebuilt aircraft engines for a living for over 30 years. During that time, I rebuilt automobile, semi, & farm tractor engines as a hobby, so I have a small clue as to what will work & what will not.
I need a few questions answered before I can give you advise on this engine. Bar the lots of pictures advice, that will always be my advice. 1. Why are you looking at a rebuild? Just because it seems the best to have a fresh rebuild going forward? 2. Did you do a compression test before you pulled the head? If so, what were the readings? Dry & with oil squirted in the cylinders? If not, I assume it is because you were concerned about any damage the rust from the spark plugs would cause. 3. What do the cylinder walls look like? If rusty how bad? Surface rust with no pitting, or does the surface on the cylinders have craters in it? 4.What does the old oil look & feel like? Is it white & foamy, black & gritty, or is it green & clean? 5. Are the valves in adjustment? If so, it is more likely a fresh rebuild. At least we can guess the PO was concerned about proper maintenance. 6. What are your plans for this Jeep? Will it be a Daily Driver (DD), or a parade queen, or a twice a month ice-cream rig? Do you plan to wheel it? If so how much? 7. Last but certainly not least, How much cash & time do you have to throw at this engine? Let me observe that a light coating of carbon on the valves & pistons is quite normal & not a reason for concern. A thick, heavy, coating is another matter. Mark has given some good advice. Hopefully, he will allow me to misquote him. Bolding mine. "It is always the better option to do everything right the first time." Please get back to us with the answers to these questions. It would help if you knew the history of this engine, but I get the impression that you do not know it. Is that true? I hope to help, Cpt Logger. |
||
cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I agree that no ridge is a good sign. Yes, perhaps a good cleaning is all that is in order. Perhaps. We need to know more before we can give good advice in this area. See my other post. The use of oversized rings is a stop-gap measure & they are to be used only on worn cylinders that are out of service limits. If the cylinders are straight & within tolerances, oversized rings will wear the cylinder walls much quicker. Use the proper rings on cylinders that are in tolerance, including service limits. IMHO, If you are going to spend the time & money to install oversized rings, it is best to just have the cylinders bored the next size bigger. OTOH, I have had success using over sized rings on a rig that was past the maximum limit & was at the maximum bore as well. Sleeving is the best answer to this issue, but we flat did not have the time for that. It did not last as long as a proper boring of the cylinders would have, but it got the job done on time. Note, this was non aircraft. IHTH, Cpt Logger. |
||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
1. Why are you looking at a rebuild? Just because it seems the best to have a fresh rebuild going forward? Don't really want to rebuild but if that is proper way to go then I will follow. Engine is out. 2. Did you do a compression test before you pulled the head? If so, what were the readings? Dry & with oil squirted in the cylinders? If not, I assume it is because you were concerned about any damage the rust from the spark plugs would cause. No compression check. Spark plugs disintegrant and other debris fell in. Have an extra head gasket and could put the head back onto perform compression test. 3. What do the cylinder walls look like? If rusty how bad? Surface rust with no pitting, or does the surface on the cylinders have craters in it? No pitting or craters I can feel or see. Marks a just dicolored areas. Looks like a slight ridge on top but not as pronounce as pictures look. 4.What does the old oil look & feel like? Is it white & foamy, black & gritty, or is it green & clean? Oil is jet black but not gritty. 5. Are the valves in adjustment? If so, it is more likely a fresh rebuild. At least we can guess the PO was concerned about proper maintenance. Have not check valve adjustment since I took a quick peek after removing. I do have one valve in question is in on picture attached to post. Was planning on lapping valves. 6. What are your plans for this Jeep? Will it be a Daily Driver (DD), or a parade queen, or a twice a month ice-cream rig? Do you plan to wheel it? If so how much? Initial is to get it up and running and work on it as I go. Once funds are in order then would love to go back and do more in detail. More like 2x/month 7. Last but certainly not least, How much cash & time do you have to throw at this engine? Time with a 4 month old and 2.5yr old is limited. Same as cash putting two in daycare. Once one goes to full time school, that frees up good amount of cash ($900/month). I didn't completely clean before photos were taken. Deck is smooth with no visible cracks. Piston still have carbon on it Edited by Kulpfarm - 26 Aug. 2017 at 3:44am |
||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
more
|
||
Kulpfarm
Member Joined: 14 Apr. 2017 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
more
|
||
cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In your third picture, the one with the two valves, Is that a crack I see going from the exhaust valve toward the head bolt hole near the edge of the block? Or is that an optical illusion? That is the front cylinder isn't it?
The intake valve next to that exhaust looks like it is severely pitted. Is it? Or is that just serious carbon build up? If it is carbon build up, it needs to be removed & the valve inspected. If it is that severely pitted, You may want to replace it. A good clean up of the carbon is in order here. Are the seats that these valves rest on when closed in good shape? They look to be in very bad shape from the pictures. They look both pitted & eroded. Eventually it would be nice to pull a rod & look at its bearings, but for now lets just look at the valves, their seats, & the pistons. I have to go to bed soon as I have to be at work early tomorrow. So for now that is all the questions I have. Thanks, Cpt Logger. |
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |