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Oil pressure

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NealzWorld View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 2:09pm
47 CJ2A.   Just overhauled the motor, oil pump is brand new.   Ran the oil pressure line from the rear oil galley port up through the body to the gauge.    Now, when I first fired it up i got around 5-10 psi.   Hard to tell the gauge hardly moved.   When I'd step on the gas it would go up as expected.   But after awhile it quits reading any pressure at all.  Was running 45 mph the other day, 0 psi....   

Changed the oil yesterday, same thing, when first fired it up read a little bit of pressure but eventually just went back to 0.   I do have some leaks, small one at the rear of the oil pan.  Also I have a leak around the oil fill tube.  Its not sealed there, just sitting on the block and rattles around when you drive.  Gotta figure out how that is supposed to be held in there/sealed.    

Will the leaks stop the pressure from rising?   Oil is obviously moving around the system.  Oil filter canister filled up, haven't welded the pistons yet.    Not too concerned about the gauge not working, but it would be nice to see oil pressure.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smfulle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 2:45pm
Those leaks won’t make a difference on pressure 
. Since you haven’t seized the engine yet I would suspect a bad gauge.

Here’s a link to a thread that tells how to fix that leak around the oil filler tube.



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48willys View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48willys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 2:59pm
Yeah something isn't right, the first place I would start is with a new gauge or one you know works right, just to be sure it's not just the gauge. There have been a couple people that had trouble with their new pump so that couldn't be ruled out. Also may be a good idea to check the timing cover orifice where the oil returns to be sure it's the right size(.040 I think).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 3:13pm
It could be something very simple like the line from the block to the gauge has some crud blocking it. Have you removed the line and blown some compressed air through it to check it is clear?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NealzWorld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 3:37pm
The gauge is brand new from Kaiser Willy's. Doesnt mean it isn't bad . I'll try a working gauge and see if makes a difference  I did take the gauge off and turn the engine over.   Oil is definitely getting to the gauge.    Thanks for the link to the oil filler tube!   I'll do that right away .   Easy fix . 

I should mention . Almost everything is new here .  The gauge, the line from the block to the gauge . The brass fittings .  Of course the oil pump.  


Edited by NealzWorld - 24 Jan. 2019 at 3:39pm
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Mike F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 6:06pm
Another thing to check would be the cam gear Oiler. It comes right off the end of the oil gallery. If it not there you’ll have trouble building any pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 10:23pm
Michael, What is the highest oil pressure that you attained on the first start up? Is that the highest you have seen so far?

Your first check should be the gauge itself. New ones are often bad, especially if the came from ADA-OMIX. IMHO, Their products are marginal, at best! Way too many folks have had issues with their crap for way too long. If they were going to fix the multiple problems, they would have by now. If you doubt me look at the "omix-sector-shaft-safety-warning-fellows", http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/omix-sector-shaft-safety-warning-fellows_topic38602.html , at the top of the tech questions & answers page.

If you replaced the brass fitting going into the timing case cover, did you check to see that the new one has a restriction in it like the old one did? This is very important, as your main & rod bearings are at risk if there is no restrictions in this fitting. Compare the old one to the new one, look inside the fitting for a slug of solder that is drilled out to a small passage of around .040". Did you throw the old one out? I hope not. I always keep the old stuff until I am absolutely sure that the new stuff works well. I know I am a bit paranoid about this, but saving the old part has been a lifesaver way too often for me to toss stuff right away.

Let us know what you find.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 10:49pm
The .040” restriction is not in the brass fitting on the cover, it is in the central tube in the oil filter housing. 
  You’ve gotten great advice here, I too would suspect the gauge, but I wouldn’t be driving it around until the problem was found and remedied. BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 11:12pm
Had the some problem with low oil pressure on my first drive with my Jeep . I had good oil pressure when I left home.Everything was new also.I was about 5 miles from home.Oil pressure was almost at 0.It was a bad new oil pressure gauge. I replace it with the old one that came with the Jeep and the gauge is still working good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NealzWorld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 11:51pm
Thanks guys!   Lots of helpful info here .   I still have the original gauge . I'll swap it out and see what happens.   Seems like an easy place to start!    I'll let y'all know when I figure it out . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 7:48am
The oil filter housing central tube may have a 0.04" opening, IDK. But there was never any service update to change this opening size (not that I am aware of anyway). The oil return line fitting to the timing cover was also not the issue.

What I think everyone is thinking of is the timing gear oil jet. The original orifice opening in the jet was 0.070", and it turned out that this was too big an opening to develop proper oil pressure at some of the crank bearings. There was a service update to replace it with an oil jet with a 0.040" orifice. Smaller orifice = more oil pressure developed. What a lot of folk have done is to solder their current jet opening closed, then redrill the orifice to the correct size.

Ref "Universal Service Manual", para D-84:



Side note: I have noted that the inches to mm conversion provided here by the Willys folks is NOT correct. 0.04" = 1 mm, not 0.102 mm as stated. IN this case it's probably a mute point because i'm not sure that it possible to drill 0.1mm anyway (equivalent to trying to drill 0.004").

But this is not the only time that I have noted inch to mm conversion errors in the manuals, and it is not always so obvious to work out where the error is. Decimal place error on the inch measurement, or conversion error on the mm measurement? It's far more likely to be the latter, which is my default position. But if errors are present, it's not impossible that it's the former, either!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 8:41am
Bruce, I knew that, but I forgot it. The last rig I worked on that had a by-pass filter had a restriction in the fitting. Thinking about it, that one may have also had a restriction in the center post. Hmmm, As near as I can tell, that would not hurt anything

Nealzworld, I agree with Bruce as to not driving it until you find out your oil pressure problem. I would worry about the engine's bearings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NealzWorld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:11pm
Where is this timing gear oil jet?    Is that where the oil line from the filter canister goes in at the front of the motor?   Under the fuel pump?    I thought the oil pump pumped oil up from this port into the oil canister.  Then it gravity Fed down into the timing gear cover .   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by NealzWorld NealzWorld wrote:

Where is this timing gear oil jet?    Is that where the oil line from the filter canister goes in at the front of the motor?   Under the fuel pump?    I thought the oil pump pumped oil up from this port into the oil canister.  Then it gravity Fed down into the timing gear cover .   

Its shown by the red arrow below. It basically has nothing to do with the oil filter circuit. It's function is to squirt oil out of an orifice (that you can't see in the picture below) onto the timing gears in order to keep them oiled. Too big an orifice lets out too much oil, meaning that it can be difficult to maintain upstream oil pressure at the crank bearings (according to the Willys tech guys)...




Edited by JeepSaffer - 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NealzWorld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:22pm
O boy .  Yeah I don't think I have anything in that spot .  Might be my problem!

Edit::: . I do have a jet there.  You'll have to zoom in to see it.  This was when I was putting it all together.   Guess I'll have to break in there and measure that opening.  Not fun!  But!   Even if it were .070 I would still get oil pressure.....  right?    just not enough.    Still gotta rule the gauge out....  

 


Edited by NealzWorld - 25 Jan. 2019 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 4:54pm
 As noted a .040" hole is made with a #60 drill bit. drill slow with light pressure they bend easy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 5:51pm
  There are also two oil galley plugs inside the crankcase that could have been left out. If the wrong plug was installed in one of them, the crankshaft may have knocked it out. Ouch 
  I would still be looking at that gauge first.     BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NealzWorld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb. 2019 at 6:24pm
Well......   Things have gotten interesting.    We ordered a new oil pan gasket and new oil pan bolts, to try to slow down some of the leaks we had around the oil pan.  Spent the day cleaning the surfaces and what not.   Waiting for permatex to dry.   Finally got it bolted back on and fired up.... NO leaks........around the oil pan,   but oil pouring, and i mean pouring out from the drain hole on the bell housing and the square hole on the plate between the housing and engine. :( 

So, we determined it must be the rear main seal, which I distinctly remember installing just a month or two ago.   Thing is, I didn't install the packing that goes on either side......  ShockedShocked

So I guess before when we had leaks around the oil pan the one going out the back wasnt so noticeable, but since we fixed all those it was being forced to the back.   Anyhow, good news I know how to fix it.   Pulled the motor out....  not a fan on working on my back.   And ordered the parts.  Hoping this might fix my oil pressure issue also. 

 

Quick question, and forgive my ignorance.   Is the oil pan under pressure when the engine is running?   Or does the oil pump just pressure up the oil galleys which delivers oil to the bearings, timing gear, oil filter, and the pressure gauge?   Which then just falls back into the oil pan?  UPDATE: well i found the diagram below. Helps a little, still not sure whether the oil pan is also under pressure.  Also, what is the oil line shown there at the back of the motor going up and across the top of the head it looks like?  




Edited by NealzWorld - 03 Feb. 2019 at 6:32pm
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