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Rebuild of J176350

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otto View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 2:59pm
My jeep's engine had been progressively running worse every year that it was dragged out of storage for the summer. A few weeks ago I thought I would tear into it and perhaps freshen it up with maybe some new rings and bearings, and deal with the valves- all without removing the engine. Those plans were soon dashed when it was discovered that conditions inside the engine were not going to easy or cheap.
 
Now the engine is out and resides at a local machine shop. Having never seen the insides of a L134, I have a few questions for the group:
The oil jet that threads into the front of the block- according to the FSM, is should have the later, 0.040" sized jet. My block has a .070" jet. I understand that the larger jet bleeds off oil from the bearings and the front rod bearing suffers. This jet was completely plugged up when I removed it so it wasn't bleeding oil at all.
Question: since the oil from the oil filter seems to enter the timing cover in a similar location above the gears, would this be sufficient oil for the gears? If I have to solder up the 0.070" hole and re-drill a new hole, where do I get a 0.040" drill bit?
 
Also, has anyone tried a new flywheel ring gear from any of the vendors? Mine is missing half the teeth on one side; could it be possible to cheap out and turn the gear over and reuse it?
 
This is getting expensive quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 5:44pm
This is a MM bit, but it's pretty close to .04.  And it doesn't cost much.


The 124 and 129 tooth ring gears have straight cut teeth and can be flipped.   I did this on one of mine.
  
I believe (might be wrong) the 97 tooth ring gear has tapered teeth and should not be flipped. Unless your engine is modified, you probably have a 97 tooth gear.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 7:17pm
You will find that it WILL get expensive. A new ring gear is not that expensive but collectively, once the machine shop tells you what you're going to need, it will start to add up. Don't go cheap here. Buy quality parts and do it right the first time. You can source parts if you want. I generally buy from Ron Fitzpatrick over on the G503 for engine rebuild stuff. I DO NOT want to go back in to the engine because I cut a corner. Heres a partial list of whats coming at you: Pistons, rings, valves, valve guides, gaskets plus all the machine shop work including maybe sleeving the cylinders. A ring gear with 1/2 the teeth missing? Yeah you're getting another ring gear. Be prepared for at the very least $1500 - $2000. Others might scoff at that and tell you they can have an engine done for way less........thats them.....you say you've never seen the inside of an L134 so someone else is doing it.....spend the right money the first time you'll be happier in the end.Big smile......$.02 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 7:43pm
A #59 from a numbered drill bit set is .040
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Red Willy Red Willy wrote:

A #59 from a numbered drill bit set is .040

You smart mechanical type guys always impress me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by damar2yxr damar2yxr wrote:

You will find that it WILL get expensive. A new ring gear is not that expensive but collectively, once the machine shop tells you what you're going to need, it will start to add up. Don't go cheap here. Buy quality parts and do it right the first time. You can source parts if you want. I generally buy from Ron Fitzpatrick over on the G503 for engine rebuild stuff. I DO NOT want to go back in to the engine because I cut a corner. Heres a partial list of whats coming at you: Pistons, rings, valves, valve guides, gaskets plus all the machine shop work including maybe sleeving the cylinders. A ring gear with 1/2 the teeth missing? Yeah you're getting another ring gear. Be prepared for at the very least $1500 - $2000. Others might scoff at that and tell you they can have an engine done for way less........thats them.....you say you've never seen the inside of an L134 so someone else is doing it.....spend the right money the first time you'll be happier in the end.Big smile......$.02 
 
Thanks for all the responses. I've resigned to the fact that I'll be writing a big check. I don't know what stage of grief that is, but I'm there. The engine was bored .040 over already and the machine shop says that it will clean up to .060 and the crank will be taken from .010 under to .020, rods resized, etc. The reason I pulled it was that pistons #3 and 4 broke most of their rings and the other pistons weren't far behind. Like most people I'm trying to save a buck and do what I can to keep costs down, but in the end I never want to do this again so it will be done right. The bellhousing bolts were enough fun for me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 9:56pm
If it's going to a machine shop, you might let them have a chance at supplying the parts. They will know exactly what is needed and will source good parts because they will have to stand behind them. It's hard to guarantee your work when the customer supplies his own, sometimes unknown quality, parts. I'm not saying anything agains Ron F. or Carl W., they both supply good stuff, but the machine shop guy may not know that. My machine shop supplies all of my parts because I know he'll use good parts and it saves me a step or two, as well as the fact that his prices are as good or better than anyone else's.  BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar. 2017 at 10:30pm
It can be tough for smaller shops to match prices on parts... they aren't buying in bulk or warehousing volume.  They are buying one set of pistons to size for your block, even if wholesale.  That said, as Bruce W noted, they won't buy junk because they have to stand behind it.  I think it's worth the little extra to support them (dedicated automotive machine shops are becoming rare in our disposable society).  If there is an issue, the last thing YOU want is them telling you it's the china crap you made them use.  If you are sourcing parts and assembling it, different story.

Though this is not the place you want to skimp, imo...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar. 2017 at 3:49am
I am having the shop supply parts with the exception of the valves. They said the only valves they could source were very expensive (20 and 30 dollars each intakes and exhausts) so I ordered some Sealed Power valves through Rock Auto for $11 and $12 each. Rock Auto also carries the OMIX ones, but I didn't want those. This is an auto parts store that has a machine shop in-house. They've been in business since 1934 and have done engine work for me before. Their evaluation of my engine was that it is a good but worn-out core.
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I've usually had good luck letting machine shops order parts but the price of the valves is out of line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar. 2017 at 11:01pm

Rob I have that drill bit and will be in Salem tomorrow (Sat) if you want to borrow it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2017 at 2:14am
That's OK Mike, I'm not going to be anywhere Salem tomorrow. Thank you, though. Maybe it could be mailed instead?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2017 at 12:57am
i'm going to order up the full gasket kit for the engine, not sure what rear main seal comes in a Felpro kit. Does anyone know if it's a rope seal or a rubber one? The engine had a rubber seal in it when it was disassembled. What does everyone prefer? Rope or rubber?

Also one set of valves showed up; Sealed Power/Federal Mogul made in South Africa- interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar. 2017 at 1:55pm
The machine shop called yesterday and said they needed valves to continue working, which was good news! Then they called a short while later and informed me that when they were finish honing one of the cylinders they noticed a crack in it, which was bad news! I stopped by the shop and sure enough, there is a crack in cylinder #4 Cry. So J176350 will get a sleeve put in cylinder #4.
Also the intake valves showed up on the porch when I got home which made me happy because then forward progress could continue. And then I opened the box to discover that Rock Auto had shipped 3 intake valves. It was a real emotional roller coaster of a day.
And the bill so far is upwards of $1300 and rising.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar. 2017 at 1:25am
Hang in there Rob.  Its been a while since I bought my last Felpro set but I want to say they came with both types of rear main seals in them but I would not bet on it as my Memory sucks. There has been a ton of discussion here about which is better and I believe most go with the rope. That is what I have used. I am feeling your pain as I have just disassembled my other engine that came out off my Green Jeep and found that it has already been bored .080 over so I am sure I will have to get a four cylinders sleeved. I think the is going to cost me $$$$.  Oh well Just Empty Every Pocket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr. 2017 at 2:58pm
The machine shop called yesterday to say that my block needs to be decked. I had instructed them to perform their work without taking out the head studs because none of them leaked and I wanted them to stay that way. Now all the studs will be removed for the machining.
The shop tells me they do a lot of Ford flatheads and that they recommend running straight water for cooling during the summer and that the studs will rust themselves sealed.
 
I would prefer to do something else. What do others use to seal the head studs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr. 2017 at 3:39pm
Its always a good idea to mate a nicely machined deck to a nicely machined head, so if they are machining your deck have the head done as well. The studs that penetrate the water jacket definitely need more than rust to seal them up. Use Permatex on the stud threads. Remember to write down your engine serial number because once its decked the number will be gone.Big smile
Oh and don't reuse your old studs. Buy new ones.
Now that you are getting close to being done let us know the tally it would be interesting to see what a realistic cost estimate should be......


Edited by damar2yxr - 12 Apr. 2017 at 4:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr. 2017 at 3:43pm
Was my understanding that head studs were a "stretch" item and well worth replacing as long as you're in there. I did replace mine.  Reusing (or re-reusing) may lead to head torque issues.

Lol, ask them where all the water running the stud threads "goes" while we're waiting on them to rust seal...

ETA:  I used permatex II


Edited by mbullism - 12 Apr. 2017 at 3:46pm
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