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Rebuild of J176350

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otto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by bverboy bverboy wrote:

otto, whats a jeep wave?
 
The "jeep wave" is just when jeep drivers would pass one another and would simply wave (using all fingers) to the other driver much like motorcyclists do. Maybe this doesn't happen as much now with all the many Jeep vehicles on the road.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 3:49pm
One more "glass half full" moment.  The missing radiator fluid happens because the engine block is filling up with water.  I have had to add radiator fluid after 'first time engine runs' on both of my minor rebuilds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:29pm
When draining the oil in a case like this (always, actually) I unscrew the last thread of the drain plug slowly, and ease the plug away from the hole by about a 1/16" to see if any water comes out before the oil. Water and oil will not stay mixed, and water will go to the bottom. Check the oil you drained out and see if there's water in the bottom of the drain pan.
Before you get too wild with taking things apart, pressure test the cooling system, and if it goes down, then look for where it's going. Then you can pull the side cover or the pan for a better look. Also pull the spark plugs and check for water in the combustion chambers / cylinders. Don't pull the head until you're sure you know where the water is going, and you're done testing.    BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 1:35am

Rob my heart it is sinking reading this. The engine I am running in my jeep now was cracked when I had it rebuilt and I had it pined to repair the crack around the dist. area. Then I found it was cracked inside the dist. hole also which I repaired with the pipe trick and epoxy down the hole which is working great. My be there was some sealer some ware that was dissolved when it was hot tanked?  I think I would pull the pan as that is pretty easy and you should be able to see were the water is coming from.



Edited by mike in oregon - 06 May 2017 at 1:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 3:43am
Originally posted by otto otto wrote:

Originally posted by bverboy bverboy wrote:

otto, whats a jeep wave?
 
The "jeep wave" is just when jeep drivers would pass one another and would simply wave (using all fingers) to the other driver much like motorcyclists do. Maybe this doesn't happen as much now with all the many Jeep vehicles on the road.
 
 


I still get return waves from some Jeeps, even JKs.  Too many don't know the "Jeep Wave", though.
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

When draining the oil in a case like this (always, actually) I unscrew the last thread of the drain plug slowly, and ease the plug away from the hole by about a 1/16" to see if any water comes out before the oil. Water and oil will not stay mixed, and water will go to the bottom. Check the oil you drained out and see if there's water in the bottom of the drain pan.
Before you get too wild with taking things apart, pressure test the cooling system, and if it goes down, then look for where it's going. Then you can pull the side cover or the pan for a better look. Also pull the spark plugs and check for water in the combustion chambers / cylinders. Don't pull the head until you're sure you know where the water is going, and you're done testing.    BW
 
Sage advice Bruce. I did try to just crack the drain plug and see if any water would come out, but made a giant mess and drained out everything. I think pressure testing the cooling system is a great idea and something I want to try, but all the radiator cap type testers that I can find fit the smaller, more modern sized radiators.  Maybe removing the heater valve in the head and fitting something there might work. The spark plugs looked good except for cylinder #4 which was wet. Inside the spark plug hole I could see some rust forming around what looked like a valve seat. There was a crack repair done between cylinders 3 and 4 in the block deck. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by mike in oregon mike in oregon wrote:

Rob my heart it is sinking reading this. The engine I am running in my jeep now was cracked when I had it rebuilt and I had it pined to repair the crack around the dist. area. Then I found it was cracked inside the dist. hole also which I repaired with the pipe trick and epoxy down the hole which is working great. My be there was some sealer some ware that was dissolved when it was hot tanked?  I think I would pull the pan as that is pretty easy and you should be able to see were the water is coming from.

 
 
Mike, this has been a pretty discouraging experience to be sure and I don't think that bringing the blue jeep to the Spring Fling is going to happen this year. I'm focusing my efforts on my black beater jeep and have made some forward progress on it. If things cooperate, I'll still have a jeep to participate with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

Originally posted by otto otto wrote:

Originally posted by bverboy bverboy wrote:

otto, whats a jeep wave?
 
The "jeep wave" is just when jeep drivers would pass one another and would simply wave (using all fingers) to the other driver much like motorcyclists do. Maybe this doesn't happen as much now with all the many Jeep vehicles on the road.
 
 


I still get return waves from some Jeeps, even JKs.  Too many don't know the "Jeep Wave", though.
 
I remember this from when I was in high school in the early 80s. My first real car was a Jeep J-3000 PU and from time to time other drivers would wave, primarily driving other jeeps. I also remember fixing a flat tire on the truck on the shoulder of the road once, and a CJ driver stopped to see if I needed any help. It didn't seem to bother him that he had traffic backed up behind him as we were talking!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2017 at 4:22am
Rob even if you don't get a jeep running you are still welcome to come down and join along as I am sure we will have plenty of seats to go around. Not as much fun I know but better then nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 2:54pm
I tried a few experiments this weekend to locate where the water was coming from inside the engine. I placed a "T" in the heater hose with a bicycle pump attached to pressurize the cooling system. That didn't work so well as it just made bubbles in the radiator- the cap doesn't really seal so it couldn't build pressure anyway. I also poured a fresh gallon of oil in the engine and ran it for about ten minutes to flush out the water/oil mixture that was left in the engine. When this oil was drained, it seemed like a lot of water droplets were exiting the oil pan after the bulk of oil was drained. I removed the left fender and the side cover to the engine (as the shop wanted me to) and found no evidence of water in there. Removed the oil pan and found water droplets running down cylinder #4 between the cylinder water and the piston. The cylinder head was removed next- evidence of water was obvious in #4, but I can't find any clear failure of the head gasket. I'm leaning towards this crack repair as being the culprit as the source of water. I have a good photo of the crack repair between #3 and 4, but can't figure out how to post it here from my I phone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 3:04pm
In the short term, I'm going to try using a copper head gasket with a generous application of the copper spray. Long term- start shopping for a different block. I did a search for the term "copper head gasket" here in the forum, but really didn't find a definitive source for this gasket. I did see a copper gasket at Walck's but it appeared to be a copper sandwich type gasket. I'm thinking a solid copper gasket might work. Does such a thing exist? I have two flat machined surfaces on the head and block so if there is a solid copper gasket hopefully it might possibly seal. This is kind of a "hail Mary" effort.
 
The shop gave me a bottle of block seal to try, but I really don't want this stuff in the radiator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 3:29pm
Solid copper head gaskets certainly do exist... I just bought and used one. But i'm in South Africa and you are in the USA Ermm. I don't know where it was made originally or where it came from. There were no identification marks on it.

I'm going to investigate getting some made, because the one I bought was %!&$ expensive. Still doesn't help you, sorry, except to say they do exist.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2017 at 2:50pm
I'm going to start looking for another engine block, are there any visual clues that would distinguish a gear-drive block from a chain driven one? I certainly don't want to buy something I can't use. Are the numbers on the block my best indicator?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2017 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by otto otto wrote:


Also one set of valves showed up; Sealed Power/Federal Mogul made in South Africa- interesting.
 
Otto, this is very interesting as I am looking at a valve job right now and still need to order parts. Finding parts locally is very advantageous for obvious reasons.
 
Did the valve set have part numbers on them that I could call Federal Mogul up and say "I need four of XXX and four of YYY"?
What was contained in the kit? Valves, guides, springs?
 
I would be pleased as punch if I could find these items locally... Please let me know...
 
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2017 at 7:43pm
Mike,
 
Luckily, I had a photo of the parts where the number was visible (because I threw away the boxes) and could see it. The Sealed Power part # for I believe the intakes was V-341, and from memory the exhaust valves # was V-340. I bought these through Rock Auto so their invoice may carry their own numbering system. There was no kit, just valves in a box.
 
Wouldn't it be great if you only had to walk down the street and get them?
 
Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2017 at 8:11pm
Mike: Otto is correct. V-340 is the exhaust valve and V-341 is the intake. These are Sealed Power numbers and I have a set of each ready to go into a new block and they were made in South Africa. Federal-Mogul uses the same parts numbers as Sealed Power.

Hope this helps...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 8:02am
Thanks guys, this is useful information. I have made contact with Federal Mogul and they are about 50km from my house! I did speak to someone there, but the news is not good:

Federal Mogul is an international manufacturing company that makes all sorts of things. One of their product lines is valve train components, and they market these under the brand name of Sealed Power. They do make V-340 and V-341 here in South Africa and were able to look up on the computer and confirmed they were for the L134.

However (and this is the bad news), because the market here in South Africa is so small (there must be less than two hundred L134 engines on the roads), all the valves they make are for the export market. They said they would look if there was a production run planned to fulfill an order and make some extra for me, but there are no outstanding orders to be fulfilled. And they are certainly not going to do a production run of 4 valves for me on the intake and 4 valves on the exhaust. 

So although the valves are made 50km from my house, I am going to have to order some that have been shipped to the USA, and then ship them back over here, with shipping costs both ways and everyone's markup thrown in along the way. Dead

How is that for crazy?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 3:20pm
Well, sometimes you just hit it lucky... and when you do you shouldn't complain. Smile

My contact at Federal Mogul in South Africa called back to say that he has searched their warehouse and he found they have some un-allocated stock on the shelves. Further, they are prepared to sell to me, although they are primarily a manufacturer and do not normally retail.

Maybe I should go and buy a lottery ticket this evening?

Big smile
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