seized engine |
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Posted: 05 Dec. 2018 at 7:05pm |
I am working on a friends 47 cj2a. 3 years ago I did some work on it to get it running better and start more reliably. Unfortunately it doesn't get driven much because they hae a summer business up North and travel a lot during the Winter. Just before they left for the summer I tried to fix a no start/ hard start issue I ordered new ignition parts but never got to finish before they left. The jeep sat in the garage all summer in Florida. 2 weeks ago I went to finish the job the jeep had been sitting outside the garage for about a month to temporarily store some of his daughter's stuff. After installing the ignition parts I went to turn the engine to set timing and the engine was seized. It appears water had accumulated around number 4 plug and was quite rusty. So far I have spray WD-40 in the plug holes and attempted to turn engine with 3/4in breaker bar, applying 100psi air pressure in each cylinder of course some went out intake or exhaust, and also rocking jeep in gear and using the starter. I've put oil, WD-40 and PB blaster in the plug holes and rocked the jeep every couple of days. They left for the month of December and I towed it to my house to continue trying to free it up. I put the breaker bar on and applied constant pressure with a floor jack for a few days nothing so far but will continue that. I was looking for other ideas thought about trying diesel fuel ( bad smell in garage though) or transmission fluid and Acetone combo. I hate to open the engine as it did run good and had great even cylinder pressures and oil pressure. I am open to anyone's experience . I thought of pushing it down the driveway and popping clutch but that would probably break something. Thanks for your views and ideas.
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Jerry Bryant
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
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IMHO if you can't turn the engine with a big breaker bar on the crank then there is enough rust to cause damage to the rings and cylinder. Water will not pass a plug that is in a cylinder that has good operating pressure. Water is a much bigger molecule then air. Try the Tranny fuild and Acetone. Though you will have to get all that out of the oil before you try running it. Just be prepared for not such a great running engine after this.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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cpt logger
Member Joined: 23 Sep. 2012 Location: Western Colorad Status: Offline Points: 3043 |
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If it is that stuck, you are going to have to pull the head & look at the cylinders. Unless....someone, not you, screwed around & broke something. They did move it for you. Is the transmission turning free? Did you have to put the transfer case in neutral to tow it or did you just put the transmission in neutral? If the transmission was in neutral & the transfer case was in any gear, then the transmission is not stuck in two gears at once. I know that pushing in on the clutch should free the engine up, however we may have two issues, one a stuck transmission, & the other a stuck clutch disc. It is common for the clutch disc to stick to the flywheel if it sits for a long time unused. Now, is the clutch working correctly? Sometimes a flywheel bolt or a piece of the pressure plate will break loose & jam between the flywheel & the bellhousing causing the engine to seize up. Try to turn the engine backwards. Sometimes that will let the jammed bolt/part drop out & free up a seized engine. It is worth a try. Heck maybe the starter is jammed into the flywheels teeth. Perhaps the
folks who moved it for you tried using the starter to accomplish the
move, thereby jamming it up. Pull the starter & try to turn the engine. If it is now free, the starter was the issue. These scenarios are unlikely, but the tests are easy & could save you from having to pull the head. It would be a major bummer if you pulled the head & found out that the transmission was the issue.
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berettajeep
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 03 Feb. 2009 Location: Astoria OR Status: Offline Points: 4304 |
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I've had luck with using "Corrosion block" found in boat stores.
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Greaser007
Member Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Wow, that thing seized-up quick.
Had the engine seized on the owners, and they didn't tell you ? I must agree with CPlogger: if it were my engine, I would pull the head for further investigation of what is preventing rotation. And, doggonit, I must agree that you hope not to have to pull the head. BUT: head removal may be the safest alternative. |
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Mike S
Member Joined: 20 May 2006 Location: West Coast Status: Offline Points: 2318 |
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Pull the head. that will tell you what you need to know. Spraying lube into the plug holes is not sufficient to helo break it loose... the plug holes are not directly over the cylinders and most of the lube won'y reach the cyilinder walls. I had the problem and ended up replacing the block and doing a full re-build.
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'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
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Jeff_Davis
Member Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Argentina & FL Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I've had good luck freeing old stuck tractor engines with a 50/50 mix of Acetone and Marvel Mystery Oil, or the similar 50/50 mix of Automatic Transmission Fluid and Acetone, as mentioned by Mark W, above.
After performing the tests outlined above to eliminate the clutch and transmission as the source of the problem, pull the plugs and inject a couple of ounces of the mix into each cylinder. I like to use a big syringe, with a small vinyl tube attached so I can direct the fluid into the cylinders and not just have it exit an open valve. Let it sit for a few days and then try moving it carefully. Keep trying... and soaking. You must change the oil after this treatment, as mentioned. Or, get your tools out for a look inside! Any update on the things you've tried, Racer 490??
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Jeff
1947 Willys CJ2A Las Flores, Provinca de Buenos Aires, Argentina 1951 Willys M38 Flightline jeep (Southeast Florida) 1954 M-100 USMC Trailer 1954 FORD F-100 parts chaser, 292 V8 Y-Block |
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I've mixed up the acetone tans fluid combo and I am going to let that work this week. I've pulled the starter and loosened the belt to eliminate Starter or water pump as culprit. I suspect it is the number 4 cylinder as it had standing water around the Sparkplug despite having a cover over the jeep. I'll pull the head this weekend and see how bad the damage is probably will have to pull the pan. Number 4 is on the combustion stroke at TDC so hopefully It won't take too much to tap out. I'll also take the valve cover off and peak in there. Probably hone it put new rings and bearings in while I am there but that is a slippery slope lol.
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Jerry Bryant
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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here is what I found after getting my engine to breakfree and rotate. The rings had siezed in the pistons and I couldn't get enough compression to start the engine. I pulled the head after soaking it a week and was able to help the pistons to move by using a 2x4 cut to fit into cylinder and began to work from piston to piston and the engine finally turned over. it was after reinstalling the head that it was determined that I had low compression. I did a rering job in chassis. For #4 piston it helps to lower front of engine to gain clearance on the lip of the firewall.
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/more-barnfind-46-engine-seized-work-part-3_topic27004_page2.html?KW=barnfind
Hope yours isn't this involved but it might be |
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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Greaser007
Member Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Hey Racer490 !
Good luck this weekend. So, the 490 sounds like a Husky motorcycle. I had a friend who bought one brand new back in the '70's and it was black with gold trim and rims. I have been soaking my head-nuts with WD-40 on occasion with the idea that eventually I will pull the head to inspect and possibly pull the engine and do a tear-down to have a "Looksie" at what condition my condition-is-in, the engine's condition. hahaha (don't ask my wife, cause she will tell you I am a 'lost-cause'). joking She is probably right. too many irons in the fire. Here is a video I think may work for freeing a stuck piston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQLiDM6Ixn0 I am going to try this trick on a marine engine that sat out in the rain for how-many-years before I bought it for the heads. And I have had good luck soaking stuck pistons with marvel-mystery oil. Personally I would recommend pulling pistons in-frame after removing the oil pan to see how many piston rings are stuck in the grooves. ( I find this OFTEN when disassembling used engines ) The story I get from the sellers is "oh, I think it was 'recently' rebuilt". Yeah, Right, but a real good sales pitch. If the rings are scraping accumulated rust off of the cylinder walls, and the engine fires, the compression blows the rust-gook-stuff into the ring grooves plugging them further. That is my theory. But, engines are tough, and the other day I was looking at some main-bearings which came with some L134 parts I bought, and the babbit portion of the bearing was gone and the steel shell was almost worn-through. I wonder how many decades that engine was successfully operated (powered-by-Budweiser and Camel cigarettes) before it was finally torn-down for inspection because it had some 'peculiar' noises. :) I am hoping you don't have to tear down your buddies engine. Len |
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Bill2A
Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2018 Location: Fort Worth, Tex Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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PB Rust Blaster is better for soaking than WD40.
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1946 CJ2A 14098
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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An update. I pulled the head and oil pan. Pulled number 4 but still could not rotate engine so I knocked out number 3 and then engine rotated. Maybe there was a head gasket issue between 3 and 4 That is a common problem with my Triumph Spitfire. I'll try to figure out how to post pictures and add some. My plan is to hone the cylinders with my ball hone and put new rings and rod bearings in and button it up. the pistons are .50 over and rod bearings .50 over so only 1 rebuils left in this block without resleeving.
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Jerry Bryant
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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https://1drv.ms/f/s!As_M-hocLE-V5VmjHuj2TBm7UR9-
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Jerry Bryant
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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hmm no pictures |
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Jerry Bryant
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jeeper50
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 01 Mar. 2008 Location: Spanish Fort AL Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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While you have the head off, better make sure the valves aren't sticking in the guides too, spray the guides with oil to make sure they are ready to go when the motor is cranked over for a startup
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Belleview ol skool winch soon. '48 CJ2A 283 V8 sm 420 granny low, tera low D18, overdrive,lockers Texan at heart,Alabama by retirement |
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smfulle
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Jerry Bryant
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racer490
Member Joined: 01 Feb. 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, fl Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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after I pull the other 2 pistons I'm going to rotate the engine a few times, observe the valves and spray some oil on them.
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Jerry Bryant
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