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Solex-clone Carburetor - good news

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Greaser007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Solex-clone Carburetor - good news
    Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 3:17am
Ok Guys & Gals :)

   Question:
with the Solex, do I need to use the carb-base-gasket with the slots in it, or not ?
What carburetor is it that requires the carb-base gasket with the slots ?

   GOOD NEWS !

   I finally got my L134 engine to run at high idle today !
That is a First for me. I have never in my life (67 years) ever owned a Solex carburetor. And personally, at this point in my struggle to get this carb to operate properly, I am really having my doubts about feeling rosy.
   Now, had I started off with a known-good carb, then my impression would be very different. I can only play Dick-Tracy for so-many-days, trying to bring back to life someone else's Sour-Apple, and then I begin to loose interest. Yes, throw it away and get a known-good carb, but there is a "catch" to buying a known-good Carburetor _ _ _ $$$$$$$. Yep $$$$$.

   When you are a blue-collar worker from Rural-America, then a person must be frugal with funds, and try to make an Already-Used component work, which entails many long hours of research, head-scratchin, hair-pulling, and cussing to hopefully get positive results. If at all possible.

   Below is a link to a very helpful article on tuning the Solex, and how it operates:

https://www.scribd.com/document/2357331/Solex-Selection-and-Tuning-of-Carburettor

   The Solex does not have a Choke-butterfly.
It has a "Starter-Valve-disc" to provide fuel and air to the engine for the starting circuit. This is a strange and new concept from the butterfly-choke that I am used to seeing on carbs.

   For Cold Starting: you must pull the dash button to close the Starter-valve then start the engine and allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature, then open the valve by pushing in on the cable control button. Bingo.
I think mine has the 'intermediate' position on the disc which is a position for starting an already-warm engine. That is the position I had mine set at after initial-start with a charge of primer-gas.

   So I started the engine running off of a temporary fuel container (can) and pulled the carb "starter-valve" dash button to the intermediate position, and the engine ran at high idle until the soup-can ran out of fuel.
If I moved the linkage to the full-closed position it seemed like it was too much choke, and if I opened it up, the engine would die. More diagnostic required _ _ _ again.

    I was STOKED for sure. Great News yes.
Now I can work on fine-tuning the idle circuit with getting the throttle plate dialed-in closer in relation to the idle-bypass-slot. That will be my next challenge is to pull the carb, and see how much bypass-slot is exposed with the throttle butterfly at the current position. I am sure I will have to fine-tune from there.
    I really would like to get this carb to work properly before having to cut loose with $375 for a rebuilt Carter WO and pay another $250 core-charge.
    How much does it cost to replace the wife's Ice-Maker in her Fridge $465.

    My willys project seldom gets attention because I am currently working on re-furbishing a '95 Honda Passport V-6 hemi which is an Isuzu-built engine.
The engine is a 3.2 liter SOHC mpi engine with a real-funky valve-train that is non-adjustable, and this engine is Notorious for eating rocker-arms and shafts. My shafts appeared fine, but when checking for tappet clearance, all of the exhaust valves had about .045, with the hydraulic lifter fully extended.
When I went to replace the Lash-adjusters, I discovered that the intermediate rockers and shafts were Severely-Worn and must be replaced.
    Just another setback of an additional $200+ tossed into the "Money-Pit" and hours upon hours of painstaking misery with busted-knuckles and ripped nails. ( I would rather be working on the Willys ).

   My next chance to work on the willys will be to remove the Solex and check the throttle plate in relation to the Idle fuel by-pass slot.

   Len

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 3:46am
I fell your pain sir. I to have done battle with the Solex. I’ve spent hours trying to get one to supply fuel to an engine in such a manner that it would run properly. Searched the world for a technical sheet that was legible in vain. Finally bought another one in hopes of getting a legible sheet. Again I was disappointed. I did however end up with one that works. At least it did the last time I tried it. Best of luck with your battles. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 4:29am
thanks Mike and I am glad you got a good one.
Is yours a real-Solex, or is yours one of the newer "clones" of the Solex ?
Does your Solex have the "intermediate" setting for warm-starts ?

I did pull the distributor cap ( with a slide hammer it was so tight ) and checked the points and all and everything in the distributor looked good, and my engine has the road-draft tube, so no Pcv valve to fuss with.

If the day comes where carb-meets-anvil with resulting 8-lb sledge, I will have a big smile on my face, and will never have to deal with this clone, which looks to be worse than some things you may find in Harbor-Frieght.

The '46 I restored in '84 had a real nice Carter WO series carb and liked it.

I have been keeping my eye open for a nice Carter WO locally, but nothing has turned up yet. And I have been so busy with more important stuff that I have not made a 'diligent' search other than the local northern-calif Craigslist.

   I hope to get the bugs worked out of this clone, and give the carb a run-for-its-money to see if I like it on-the-road, which will be awhile yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 5:29am
Len,

It’s a chi com clone. I don’t know what the first one was. I suspect it was also. I believe that the problem with the first one is a blockage somewhere. Main jet circuit I think. It would idle the motor fine just wouldn’t run up. The pump works. I have the other one. It’s working so I’ll pull this one apart and see what I find. I was told when I bought it. The PO had put a new tank in and a new carb. I cleaned the sediment bowl on the fuel pump and it was full of stuff that shouldn’t have been there. I suspect that when the PO changed out the fuel system it didn’t change it all. The solex has a fine screen on the inlet. When I took it off to clean it it came out all twisted up. Doubt it was doing it’s job. So I’ll clean it out and see if it does any good. If not I’ll pack it full of tannerite and put a .264 bullet in it at 300 yards. My version of a hammer and anvil. Should make a pretty good pop. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 5:49am
For my GP I had to find an original German made one that was originally on a Porsche. 32pbic is the model. Then send to a VW guy to rebuild it. Runs great now!
Jay

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 2:43pm
    Ha, I liked the alternative to the hammer and anvil solution to a bad carb.

   Hey chasindeer, I did some research on the 32pbic Carb you mentioned for the Porsche 356, and found some nice illustrations of the Carb.

   Mike F - a good point you reminded me of: clean the Fuel Pump. I need to do this, because a few years back I had a fuel pump fail on a Ford 390 engine. So, I removed the pump and cleaned it best I could with mineral spirits and then carb-cleaner spray, and the thing Worked !
   I will pull the fuel pump before going further. Hey, boogers, I studied this routine awhile back, and it looks most impossible to access the bolt that is hidden behind the drivers-side motor-mount, and the engine-mount-plate. I may wind up removing the mount to get the forward-most pump-bolt removed & re-inserted and started.

   Below I am attaching a link to the "replacement" Solex carburetor article that I have found to be most helpful. The links in the article have been working for me, and very helpful for trying to digest how the Solex "starter-valve" functions, and the relationship of the throttle-butterfly with the idle circuit fuel-slot.   just little technicalities.

http://cj3b.info/Tech/SolexCarb.html


   Len

Edited by Greaser007 - 24 Nov. 2018 at 2:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 4:22pm
I have the new the new Solex installed and it runs the motor fine. At least I think it does. Having no benchmark other than the other Solex.
However, it is not without issues. The symptoms indicate that whatever it is that is supposed to keep fuel in the float bowl doesn’t work.  After running for a while and shutting down for a couple of minutes it’s flooded. Left sit for a day it acts like it has no fuel. You have to crank on it for up to a minute before it will fire off. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Mike F Mike F wrote:


 If not I’ll pack it full of tannerite and put a .264 bullet in it at 300 yards. My version of a hammer and anvil. Should make a pretty good pop. 
 
Video please..Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by RICKG RICKG wrote:

Originally posted by Mike F Mike F wrote:


 If not I’ll pack it full of tannerite and put a .264 bullet in it at 300 yards. My version of a hammer and anvil. Should make a pretty good pop. 
 
Video please..Smile

I’ll try. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 5:47pm
   Mike,
   if you remove the top cover with the carb mounted on the engine, is there fuel in the bowl to the correct height ? or empty ?
   If empty, I wonder where the fuel is getting siphoned out to, or leaking out ?

   If you suspect flooding, then you probably have too high fuel pressure.

Supposedly, with the "starter-valve" a shot from the accelerator-pump is not needed for starting.   odd.
   After the day, will the engine fire right up with a shot of primer-gas ?

   I am just now learning about the "Starter-Valve" (choke), and with it set at the half-way position my engine was running at a high idle until it sucked the fuel out of my temporary-fuel-container.

   With all the info on the Links in the CJ3B article, I have been trying to digest the operation of the Idle-Circuit to get my Solex figured-out and running with a smooth idle at 500 rpms.

   Keep us posted on how your dial-in works out.

   Len

Edited by Greaser007 - 24 Nov. 2018 at 5:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov. 2018 at 3:38am
Len,
Hadn’t got back to doing anymore with it. Weather last couple of days has been real special. Totally dust free though. Today was the first day in the last three that it didn’t rain much. Unfortunately, the wife had my day planned out for me. I did start her up when I got home. Pulled the choke out ran the starter for a count of 5. Let it set for a count of 20 and tried again. Still nothing. Let it sit again an the third time I hit the pedal it took off instantly. I set the choke at about 1/2 and let it warm up. I was going to do more with it but it got dark on me. 
I do have a regulator in the fuel line set to 2 psi. It has also been there since the beginning. At this point I’m wondering if it could also be dirt fouled. Tomorrow morning I’m going to get into it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov. 2018 at 7:45pm
Len,
I tore down the old Solex carburetor.  These things are pretty intricate devices.  lots of passages with plugs in them.  It would be impossible to know if one was cleaned out without pulling all the plugs.  I had read that the India produced ones are better than the Chinese. So for the new one I bought the Crown rather than the Omnix thinking it would be the Indian.  I was wrong.  If I recall correctly they are originally a German design.  And from what I've seen they are beyond the capabilities of Chinese QC to produce one.
The Float bowl was dirty.  Other than that, I couldn't find anything definitive on why it didn't work properly.  Problems with this one were that it was hard starting, and it wouldn't run up with out stalling   However, there were a few things that were questionable.
The item on the right is the Economy Jet? it had the ball of stuff wrapped around it.  according to the tech sheet its filter gauze.  On the left is an inlet screen.  the way it is twisted it was put in this way.  and wasn't filtering anything.
This is the choke plate.  I don't know if you can see it in the picture but the little drilled divot has a 0.007 burr raised around it.  It looks like the brass Plate is supposed to seal against a mating surface.  There is a spring on the back side of the plate that would press it in and hold it tight.  its not going to seal with the burr on it.
I don't know if after I put the time and money in it to clean it up and put a kit in it that it would be any better than it was.  so this one will become a target.
The new one, although Chinese, is working ok.  I got a tach and vacuum gauge on the motor and got it up to 21in vacuum at 450 rpm.  Dwell was higher than it should have been.  I need to reset the points and try again.  When I get back to it  I'll also put a fuel filter inline before the regulator.  I will also see what can be done to make sure the regulator is clean and working.  As I still have issues with flooding and not wanting to start right off. 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov. 2018 at 2:24am
Originally posted by Mike F Mike F wrote:

...I still have issues with flooding and not wanting to start right off.


This is why I want to try putting an exhaust manifold from an F-head engine on my Go-Devil.  The intake manifold is just getting too hot when it doesn't need to.  The only reason I haven't tried to swap the manifolds is, the rearmost exhaust manifold stud is extremely rusty and I am afraid of having to do major surgery when the stud breaks...  Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov. 2018 at 4:37am
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

Originally posted by Mike F Mike F wrote:

...I still have issues with flooding and not wanting to start right off.


This is why I want to try putting an exhaust manifold from an F-head engine on my Go-Devil.  The intake manifold is just getting too hot when it doesn't need to.  The only reason I haven't tried to swap the manifolds is, the rearmost exhaust manifold stud is extremely rusty and I am afraid of having to do major surgery when the stud breaks...  Cry

Mike,

I had that stud seeping coolant when I put my motor in. I was looking at how I was gonna get it out to fix it. I didn’t see any way to get a hold of it. Turns out I had to take it out over other issues and fixed it then.
I kinda like Mark W’s manifold for his Chug Jeep. Using a F exhaust manifold and a Weber or TBI. But, I’ve talked with Scoutpilot. I think there a carter in my future. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 12:25am
   Mike S:

   I see you have Snow-flying in the Colorado mountains. I'm ready to Ski. :)
Ah, the rear-most manifold bolt, sounds like you need to be soaking it often with "Freeze-Off", so it may eventually loosen. Maybe heat the nut with a torch a few times to allow penetrant to work it's way into the threads. I normally use heat. (red-wrench).

   Mike F:
   You did disassemble that Solex. Nice work !

Here is what I found on my Solex-Clone:   (the recent stuff)
   On the Solex list of things to check in one of the links from above, there were instructions to "check all fasteners" to make sure they are not bottomed out in the thread-holes before compressing the gasket sufficiently.
Guess What !
   There were 2 bolts on the accelerator pump cover which were TOO-LONG, and the fuel was leaking out overnight. Yep that's right !
   So, I got out Dremel with the abrasive wheel, and dressed the bolts shorter so the gasket would get compressed before the bolts Bottomed-Out in the holes, and the holes are different depths too.

   On late Monday, I removed the Solex carb from the intake manifold, and checked the position of the Throttle plate in relation to the Idle-circuit Fuel-Transfer-Slot to see if I needed to close the plates for proper operation of the Idle-Circuit.

   What I discovered was Interesting !

1)   There is No "Slot" for the Transfer Slot, but 2-holes, with one above the other.

2)   The Idle Mixture Needle is bored off-center so badly, I cannot close-off the mixture needle to kill the engine by closing it fully. Real-Nice !
I should have taken a photo of this because when the needle stops while being screwed-in, and you look into the carb-throat from the bottom, the diameter of the needle at the hole in the carb-throat is about 1/3 the diameter of the hole that it is suppose to close off. I will be Idling-Rich, and will wait until i can test drive to see if the idle proves to be too Rich. (hope-not) :)
   Basically I will be running slightly rich with the needle screwed-in all the way, which still leaves a quite-large opening. (needle-tip off to one-side of the hole in the throttle-bore). good-quality stuff here _ _ _ OMIX.

    Nice Machining Tolerances for the After-Market Quality. NOT !

   I am Determined i am going to make this "Clone" work yet with home-owner and Back-yard Tactics.

   After Closing the throttle plate with the throttle-stop screw to where only the Bottom-hole is exposed at Idle, i put the carb back on the L134 and set the Starter Valve in the "closed" position, gave the cold engine a shot of Primer-gas and hit the starter and the engine fired right-up !   GOOD NEWS !
   i let the engine run until it sucked dry the soup-can of gasoline, and it was running at a much slower-idle, with the lower-hole exposed below the throttle plate.
   Next thing i will do is to find a tach, and hook it up to see if i am Idling anywhere near 500 rpm. Then i am going to put a NEW GAS TANK on my Christmas List and probably order a new one from Walck's or wherever someone directs me to for purchasing a tank that has Proper-Fitment in my '46 CJ2A.
   ( i am open to suggestions ) or is OMIX my only steel choice ?

   i am getting the feeling i will be going through the brakes before i take the Willys on a "Maiden-Voyage" into the horizon.   hahaha
That way i won't have to drag-a-foot to slow-down _ _ _ or to Stop. :)

Now that i have the engine Idling on it's own, i should probably attend to the Braking-System before the Gas Tank, and then i will feel Rosy about the concept of being able to STOP THE WILLYS if necessary. :)

   When operating my First '46 CJ2A back in 1984-86, and having driven it through the Rubicon for 2-summers, i KNOW first-hand how nice a good Carter YO performs. And that was at the 6k elevation.
   I am hell-bent on giving the Solex-Clone a running-chance, so i will be playing-more with the drive-ability issues, and modifying things to work.
   The ball that i had installed into the inlet-jet to the accelerator pump is working. I am still wondering why the OMIX-ADA Solex Carb kit has no Check-Ball for the Accelerator-pump Inlet Jet ? _ _ _ anyone have an answer ?

   I sourced the ball from a Carter Carb Kit for a 2-bbl something-or-other.
   One way-or-another, i am going to Beat this Solex, either with success or with the splitting maul-on-the-Anvil.   (good luck Solex-clone), it's life may be limited by my monthly allotment of Patience.   hahahaha.

   Mike F, do you think your fuel was leaking-out overnight through a jet not tightened sufficiently, or a gasket not compressed adequately ?
   Stay with the Solex-Puzzle while looking for a Carter.

   When i stumble across the right Carter in my travels, i will buy one, and my plan is to buy an L134-Engine to get-the-Carter.   :)
   (i will have to hide-it in amongst other Willys-parts so the wife doesn't spot it) _ _ _ and she is pretty good about spotting "new" collectibles. :)

   The one interesting thing i like about these little engines is that how well they will run while being worn very loose. When checking tolerances in engines during assembly, you would really be AMAZED at how LOOSE the tolerances can be, and have a nice running engine.
   The Book says .0022 piston side-clearance, and you have .0054 ? and how many decades has the engine successfully run with the .0054-or-better clearances ?   Many ! yep. Open up your old running engine and check the specs with the micrometer. You may be amazed.   hahaha
   In the late '60's, when i used to hang-out in the engine-machine-shop as a teenager, the old machinist Told me that once you learn what works, you would be surprised at how well an engine will run set-up LOOSE. I agree !
   Piston Knurling used to be a very-common procedure in the '60's, but i have not seen anyone "knurl" pistons in 40-years or more. And, one of these days, i am going to buy a Piston Knurler !
I would have more-faith in an OEM piston being knurled than having faith in some (not-all) Import After-Market Pistons. yuck, poor quality.
The question - will the OMIX-ADA pistons hold up for 70-years use ?

   Piston Kurling is changing the subject here on this thread, but it is my Thread to stretch, and i thought i would get some good Rebuttle on the Knurling Topic.     hahahaha

   My 30-year-old Son has never seen a Piston Knurler. :)

   One more "thought" on the L134 engine. It has a long-rod.
It is a proven fact that long-rod engines have significantly-Less cylinder wear than the short-rod engines because of side-thrust of the angle of the shorter rod. Just rambling _ _ _
   I share this for the youngsters, but they are more computer-savy than us old-farts, so they know all of this b.s. already.

   Len
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 1:48am
Originally posted by Greaser007 Greaser007 wrote:

   Mike S:
   I see you have Snow-flying in the Colorado mountains. I'm ready to Ski. :)


I think you'd have to ask M38Mike about snow.  He's surrounded by mountains; I just have them to one side. 

Here in my neck of Colo Springs, we generally don't get much snow.  Pike's Peak tends to shoulder the worst weather to the north and south of the city. 

Regarding the Solex, mine started running badly and I found that all the screws accessible on the outside were suffering from a goose-like looseness.  It worked okay for a while after I tightened them, but it was never great again.  I bought the Solex from JC Whitney in 2000.  I don't know where it was made. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 2:24am
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:


I bought the Solex from JC Whitney in 2000.  I don't know where it was made.  

That’s where mine came from. Crown from JC Whitney. I think I’ll check the screws. Was reading on another forum today. Some guy was having the same problem as me. He put a kit in a new Solex and cured the problem. Said he had no idea what he did but the problem went away. Putting screws in tight might be what fixed it.
Len,
My observations on the quality of a Solex clone are in agreement with yours. 
I put the old one back together. No gaskets. The screws aren’t necessarily tight. I don’t know if I put all the pieces. Back in the right places. I took lots of pictures as I took it apart. I just didn’t bother to look at them. I think it’s still as good as it was maybe better. If the weather clears up and I can find the time on Saturday I’m gonna fix it good.  Or if you want it for parts let me know I’ll send it to you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 3:57am
   Mike:

   I will send you a PM, and yes, if you would like to send it, i would be happy to accept it, and maybe the main body will have the Idle-mixture-needle-screw tapped straight with the hole in the carb body.

   Thank you !

   Len
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