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The Narrow Track Dana 30

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 1:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 2:17am
Oh O. K. then that would be lsimilar to one of Herms full floating rear D44  kits.
In that case I would certainly expect the 27 spline stub shafts will be the weakest part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 2:35am
I'm wondering when the ring gear becomes the weak link.....

I've been running 27 spline inner and outer shafts (with the big u-joints) with Warn Premium hubs and big wide 35" tires at rediculously low tire pressures downstream of a V6 with deep gearing. I haven't had any issues thus far, but it has always worried me. I try not to drive stupid, but I do a lot of pretty difficult trail riding. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 2:41am
Metcalf, That's VERY impressive after seeing the massive tires you run.
I agree..... why increase the inner spline count if you don't increase the outer diameter.
But then again I'm just another skinny tire guy. Ha Ha !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 3:02am
The first stock shaft that I broke was the original shaft in my D30. To be fair, there was a pre warning noise coming from the u-joint but I didn’t know where the noise was coming from till eventually the u-joint broke on Chinaman Gulch. ... so, if I would have changed the u-joint when it started making noise, I would have been ok.

The second one I broke (the chromoly) one, was when I was in in my accident in Moab last year. I hit a lady head on in my truck. (Nobody was hurt). I was pulling trailer with BAM BAM on the trailer. The impact was so hard that BAM BAM broke free from his bindings and slid all the way to the front of the trailer. This impact caused the outer front axle shaft to shatter into 3 pieces.

The third (stock) axle I broke was this year in Moab when we were on Green Day. My front tire sucked a large rock up into the fender. The rock wedges up in there and I guess somethings gotta give. I’d prefer not to break anything but when the stock shaft breaks, it is an easy fix and cheap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 3:10am
..... also, on the first shaft. That was when I first put a selectable locker in the front. At the time, I was new to lockers and didn’t have any experience using them, so when we did Chinaman, I just kinda turned it on, and left it on. Had I waited to turn it on when I truly needed it, and turned it off immediately after I no longer need it and before turning, I may not have blown the u-joint. Of course I know better now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 4:02am
I also run a front automatic locker and a selectable rear locker open most of the time. My initial thought was that this was going to be harder on the front axle, but I haven't had any front axle issues. My thinking now is that generally it lets the front axle lock-unlock easier because it isn't being 'pushed' as much. My little flat fender has been very surprisingly capable machine for me. 
42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 4:08am
So the breaking of the chromoly outer shaft (in the accident) makes sense to me now.  I was having a difficult time imagining the circumstance  where an outer axle shaft would shatter before twisting an inner shaft or breaking the ujoint and/or yoke under driven power.  That makes me feel a little better about building a 30/27 setup.  Metcalf’s experience has really thrown a wrench into the mix, however; especially considering Ward broke a D44 inner shaft and didn’t even know when it happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Rick G Rick G wrote:

So the breaking of the chromoly outer shaft (in the accident) makes sense to me now.  I was having a difficult time imagining the circumstance  where an outer axle shaft would shatter before twisting an inner shaft or breaking the ujoint and/or yoke under driven power....
Regardless of how it happened, when the entire chromoly assembly was in a bind, the outer shaft broke, making it the weak link. IMO, this is a good thing because if the inner breaks, you have to fish for it and hope its not stuck or jammed in the splines. If a u-joint and or yoke breaks, you may have to grind or cut it to get it out since there is very little clearance between the yoke and the bore in the knuckle. My outer broke which made pulling the axle out easier so one could say that a 30 inner and 27 outer is a good thing. You know the old saying, "Better out than in"    Now when I trailer the jeep, I take the jeep out of 4wd and shift the tranny into neutral before tightening up the binders to relieve any binding in the drive train. Once the jeep is cinched down, I put it back into gear and 4wd.

Originally posted by Rick G Rick G wrote:

... Metcalf’s experience has really thrown a wrench into the mix, however; especially considering Ward broke a D44 inner shaft and didn’t even know when it happened.


Ward's shaft broke cleanly:



... I just didn't like the way my chromoly shaft splintered into pieces.

Edited by jpet - 27 Apr. 2018 at 2:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bridog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 3:33pm
The only chromoly axle shaft I have broken was an outer shaft on the Dana 44 in the front of Blueberry. I broke it last fall and like Ward's experience in Moab, I did not know I broke it until later and I also continued to wheel on it for the rest of the day. It broke clean like the pic shows and did not damage the spindle. The shaft was about 8 years old and had been slightly twisted for the last couple years before ultimately breaking.



If I had to prioritize what I would like to see break first in a front axle (Dana 30 or Dana 44) it would be the lockout, outer shaft, inner shaft, and then the u-joint. Most of the time when I see a front u-joint fail it damages both the inner shaft and the outer shaft. So for the following reasons I like to protect that u-joint:

(1) You absolutely cannot drive on a broken u-joint, you can drive on a axle shaft failure if it breaks clean.
(2) If the “ears” of the axle shaft get bent out it can be very difficult to remove the shaft through the hole in the knuckle.
(3) If the “ears” of the inner shaft get lined up with “ears” of the outer shaft like when the u-joint fails with the wheels turned the axial force of the shafts against each other can be high enough to separate a front axle at the ball joints.
(4) Most aftermarket manufacturers warranty their axle shafts against breakage, but exclude damage to the “ears” due to u-joint failure. This means that a $25 u-joint just took out about $300 worth of axle shafts.

If an inner axle shaft breaks in between the carrier and the inner axle seal (where they usually do) it can also be quite a chore getting the broken stub past the seal without having to remove the carrier. But if that is the case it is usually a clean break and can be driven back to camp to fix it.

I think most would agree that the best and strongest front axle shafts are the RCV's. Constant velocity outer ends, super strong, and if any part of their shaft assembly breaks, it is replaced no questions asked.

The next best option is what is in the front of Rojo and will probably be what ends up in the front of Elmo and that is the chromoly 27 spline inner, chromoly 27 spline outer, and the big Spicer 760X u-joint. The Spicer 760X is not greasable, but stronger than the previous Spicer 297X joint which was available in either greasable or non-greasable.   This is the same as the Dana 44 u-joint and is what I am running in Blueberry with 37” tires. CTM makes an even stronger u-joint, but by the time you buy those along with choromoly shafts, you are getting pretty close to the RCVs.

We have slightly bored out spindles on Dana 44 axles to accept larger outer shafts and I am not too concerned about it. It seems like a fairly common practice these days and is the only way some of the aftermarket shafts (including RCVs) can be used. I do carry an extra spindle in the truck for Blueberry if for some reason one becomes damaged, but I did that long before I had to bore the spindles out or was concerned about an axle shaft exploding inside the spindle.

Everybody's experience with broken shafts on the trail is different and therefore their opinions are different and this is just mine. I carry limited tools on the trail, so my goal is usually not to fix it on the trail, but at camp. Brian


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 4:03pm
Brian, Who made your axle shafts? Mine are Alloy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bridog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Brian, Who made your axle shafts? Mine are Alloy.

The broken shaft was made by Superior Axle. I was told that they no longer make axle shafts for passenger vehicles. The replacement is a Ten Factory which is a division of a Motive Gear. Not sure about the inner shafts...I would have to dig through some old receipts. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 4:27pm
Well after some digging of my own, I think my Alloy shaft might have a 10 year warranty .... hmmm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 4:40pm
Interesting that the Motive Gear version is much less expensive than Alloy:

Motive Gear Dana 30 Axles

Alloy Dana 30 Axles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 8:06pm
42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2018 at 11:02pm
Not sure what brand my chromoly shafts are ... 
I bought them used ... not abused . Ha Ha !
Looks like maybe the Motive Gear brand on left ???

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