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Moonrunner View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 9:55pm
I will have to apologize in advance as I'm sure this has been discussed in previous posts....but I could not locate the exact info I am seeking.

I purchased a mostly complete and stock '47 CJ2a last summer from the original owners son. The '47 had been purchased new in this state so all the registration paperwork and title was issued here. The son inherited the Jeep about 20 years ago and registered it in his name at that time. I was provided his copy of the 1999 title and he filled out a bill of sale. The title lists this as a {1947 Jeep}, with the model space left blank. The engine number was used as the VIN on the title, which was common in many states from what I have read here. This number and the engine number do match

The bill of sale provided reads: Make - Willys / Model - Jeep / Year - 1947.

I decided, after reading some of the posts here, that I would see about getting this registered/titled using the two serial number plates on the firewall (and the intact frame plate) to avoid confusion for me or any possible future owners should there be an engine change. I am also striving for historical accuracy since she is close enough to original to be fully restored..someday....maybe.

I consulted with the local law enforcement agency and had the vehicle inspected...confirming that all three serial plates were intact, matched and were original to the vehicle. I was later provided with the form needed to register this little rig.  An inspection of the mailed paperwork however now shows; Year 1947  MAKE; Jeep / MODEL; Willys / STYLE; Jeep (in addition to his describing my blue jeep as green).  Nowhere on either document is mentioned CJ2A.   

I do apologize for being long-winded.... my question being as follows;  I assume (yes I know where that can get me) that a correction of the state paperwork should be easy but...when I approach the inspector what would be the correct wording on the title yet to be issued?

MAKE;  Willys or Willys-Overland?  /  MODEL; CJ2a  / STYLE;  2d (it does have a hardtop but was not added until 1948) and should 'Jeep' even be mentioned anywhere on a title for little gem?  

Thanks in advance. This forum has been very helpful and all the knowledge shared by its members is greatly appreciated.  I know from what I have read here that I should just be grateful I have a valid title and ID plates for this vehicle....but you know...that would just be too easy.   TAD  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damar2yxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 11:42pm
Willy’s would be correct. Model would be CJ2-a. Not a hard top. Are you sure all the plates numbers match? The correct serial number would be the one on the fire wall that has the CJ2-a stamped on it. More often then not the frame and body plate numbers are close to the serial number but don’t match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonrunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 12:28am
The three plate numbers all match and this was further verified by the inspector. It was interesting watching a state trooper in full uniform on his hands and knees crawling around under an old Jeep. The man was very helpful and I appreciated his time and willingness to help.

I just wasn't sure what our state would have printed on the original title issued in '47. The man I bought it from did not remember what his dad's title had for a make/model on it when he processed it in 1999.  

Sometime in years past, someone had used a torch to cut holes in the firewall for a heater but luckily (for me anyway) they did not damage either of the firewall plates in the process. The heater is long gone but the damage should be easily repaired.

I was hoping one of the members might have an original title from any state that would show if any were registered Willys-Overland or if they had the designation of 'Jeep' in the title description anywhere.

I did forget to mention that my trip to the tag office last week was interesting. I totally confused two young clerks with these same questions. Neither of the young ladies, understandably, had ever heard of a car company named Willys much less Willys-Overland. One did look at the picture I provided and stated "that looks kinda like a Jeep".    Thanks.

Thanks for the response and information.  TAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 12:32am
My 47 has all 3 original plates with matching numbers (92725).  It would be interesting to know at what s/n  the numbers started being different from each other.

   Jim
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 1:14am
Run it as is and don't stress on it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 1:48am
My title has an engine number on it from an engine that hasn't been in the jeep since 1962-63 or before when dad bought it. I have dads title along with the one I got in my name in 2003 when dad sold me CHUG. I had Robert at DataPlates4U stamp me up plates that match that number. SO The plates will match the title. Well I have a Willys made late 48 Tub so it would have a Patent plate and Body serial number plate No Gusset number and no frame number (56-57 CJ5 frame) And the serial number on my 58-59 134L has been machined off. I will restamp that number one of these days.

It sounds to me like you have everything you need my title (granted an Oregon Title) dose not say CJ-2A that I remember. It says JEEP and Willys.




Edited by Mark W. - 20 Jan. 2019 at 1:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 2:38am
In PA I have seen jeeps titled as trucks, roadsters, convertibles, etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonrunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 2:44am
Originally posted by chasendeer chasendeer wrote:

Run it as is and don't stress on it!
no stress really...just thinking I might be able to save someone else some  time and trouble somewhere down the line. If I submit the paperwork from the trooper, it will be titled with 'Jeep' as the make and 'Willys' as the model. 

  Just won't look right....won't run any different....but won't seem right. I guess it's back to the tag office again tomorrow.

Thank you all for the suggestions and ideas...  I haven't been signed on here for very long but have found out that if a Jeep question needs answering...this is the place.   TAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 5:23am
Each state is different in how they identify the manufacturer of a motor vehicle.   I imagine most use just "Willys" rather than "Willys-Overland," which would probably not fit on their computer-generated certificates of title anyway.   Some states might use just "WIL" as shorthand for Willys.

Here is why I suggest:

MAKE:  Willys
MODEL: CJ-2A 
STYLE:  JEEP  [because that word ties it to precious Kansas titles issued for this jeep]
YEAR: 1947
VIN: the chassis number on the frame tag, or on the firewall tag, following "CJ-2A-"   Yes, I know the number is really a serial number and not a VIN because your jeep was made before Vehicle Identification Numbers were mandated by law.  But the current title forms probably have a space only for VIN and no space for Serial Number, so go with the terms used on the current title form. 

When you next visit the Kansas DMV, take along a 1947 CJ-2A, or the 1949 CJ-2A / CJ-3A  Parts List to show the clerks from a factory publication with some pictures: (1) the Manufacturers Name, Willys; (2) the correct model designation, CJ-2A; (3) the vehicle type, Jeep.   

Here are the cover, title page and jeep photo pages from the 1947 Willys-Overland CJ-2A Parts List:







Maybe you can save these to your computer, then print them out to take to the Kansas DMV when applying for your title. Good luck getting your title!

Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonrunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 5:48am
That sounds like the plan to go with. The printed material would verify the manufacturer and model designations.. Thanks for the ideas...I think I'll give that a try on Tuesday.

 I was at an auction recently and bought a few antique hubcaps; one each  for a 1930 Rockne, a 1930 Peerless, a 1930 Durant and a 1930 Willys 8. I wonder how confused the DMV clerks would be with those automotive names!  I told my wife I need to find the matching cars to fit these hubcaps....

Thanks again for the help. TAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 5:57am
Originally posted by Moonrunner Moonrunner wrote:

That sounds like the plan to go with. The printed material would verify the manufacturer and model designations.. Thanks for the ideas...I think I'll give that a try on Tuesday.

 I was at an auction recently and bought a few antique hubcaps; one each  for a 1930 Rockne, a 1930 Peerless, a 1930 Durant and a 1930 Willys 8. I wonder how confused the DMV clerks would be with those automotive names!  I told my wife I need to find the matching cars to fit these hubcaps....

Thanks again for the help. TAD


It would be interesting but you would be pushing some limits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47heater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 6:42am
I agree with what Fred suggested. I bought my 47 in Paola, KS in 2013. Not quite the middle of Kansas but close. I pulled out the old Kansas Title.It reads,
Vin NO CJ2A88420
Year 1947
Make JEEP
Model (it was blank)
Style JP
The vin # matched the tag on the fire wall & frame. The new Missouri title is in a lock box so I couldn't check to see how it was printed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 4:36pm
47heater makes a good point on the VIN number and shows how Kansas likes them.  Yours should be like his, complete with the model designation included in it: CJ2AXXXXXX, with the "X"s being the actual numbers on your data plates.   Most states removes dashes "-" from their VINs and just string all the characters together. 
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
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1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonrunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 5:28pm
I thank you all for the suggestions. The CJ2a and serial number used as single entry seems like the way to go. I think I will request they allow the vehicle make to be entered as Willys, if possible.  TAD


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 5:59pm
On the other hand, my Kansas title for Ol' Red says:

Year: 1946
Make: Willys
Model: (blank)
Style: Jeep
ID No.: 64462

This is from the title issued to me in April 1969 which was a very crude form of title by today's standards.

The ID number used by the was from the original body number tag that was barely readable. The serial number tag and the frame tag were missing. When I bought Ol' Red the original engine had been replaced and the block had been decked, so they used the only number on the truck. It had always been tagged as a truck, but in Kansas the same jeep could be tagged as a passenger car.

The current registration uses the same information. The VIN number is still 64462. This sometimes confuses the people at the county tag office, but it is easy to explain because it is always the number that is on the renewal form.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonrunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 11:40pm
I wonder if they would allow me to use the truck option. I have a beautiful 1947 Kansas plate with the 'truck' designation I could use. It's not the correct county numbers for Ellis County but I was told another time they can be any county.

Just curious....how far SE are you in the state. We travel thru the Augusta / Ark City area on our way to Ponca City quite often.  Thanks for the title info.  TAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2019 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by Moonrunner Moonrunner wrote:

I wonder if they would allow me to use the truck option. I have a beautiful 1947 Kansas plate with the 'truck' designation I could use. It's not the correct county numbers for Ellis County but I was told another time they can be any county.

Just curious....how far SE are you in the state. We travel thru the Augusta / Ark City area on our way to Ponca City quite often.  Thanks for the title info.  TAD


If and only if your Jeep is tagged as an antique do you get to use an old tag that matches your title year. The upside is that the tag renewal MAY be cheaper. The downside is that Kansas limits you in how the vehicle may be used. Theoretically you are limited to a 25 mile radius of your home and it can be used only in the State of Kansas. No trips out of state. Supposedly only used for auto shows and parades. That's the theory; I have seen antique tags way out of limits and the cops really don't pay much attention unless there is some other violation.

I don't like the limitations that the state puts on the use of my vehicle, so it is tagged as a 12M truck and always has been. The taxes on Ol' Red are only $12 per year and the tag is just a little more expensive than the passenger tag.

Truck tag fee:        $48.25
Property tax:          12.00 (state minimum)
DMV modernization fee: 4.00 (everyone pays this)

Total:               $64.25

Passenger car fees are somewhat less but I am not sure how much they are.

I live in Independence, Kansas. (No, Harry Truman didn't live here, that's Independence, Missouri. When you say you are from Independence, everyone automatically assumes that you live just east of Kansas City.)

If you have questions, the best answers should be at the Ellis County Auto Tag Office. Don't be bashful, that is part of their job.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonrunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2019 at 9:18pm
I guess the  antique tag gets hung back up on the wall.... I don't like the idea of those restrictions either.  I have been to the tag office here and they were helpful.

My roommate at the KLETC  in 1989 was an officer from Independence,  KS ... last name of Morgan. I lost track of where he ended up many years ago.

Thanks for taking the time to provide the registration fees and other info, it's greatly appreciated. I have a better plan of action to proceed with now. If you make it by Hays on your travels, give me a call.  I owe you a cup of coffee...at the least.  TAD
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