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Triple X tranny noise

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Gunslinger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 12:15am
OK some background information, I was at the FCT last month and on day 4 we were descending a relatively steep grade when I developed a knocking noise from the transmission.  I was in 4 wheel drive, low range, 1st gear.  The tranny is a standard 3 speed t-90, the knock was a low speed knock, that occurred when the clutch was engaged, push in the clutch and it went away.  It made no difference which gear or range I was in, with the transmission in neutral, Transfer case in neutral, the knock was still there.

Wait, It gets better, we snuck down the hill to the bottom, but along the way we needed to climb one more short steep hill, I did this in 4 low.  That changed the noise, quieted it down but did not change the frequency.  Upon arriving home I tested it on the driveway, 1st gear low range, 4 wheel drive, two wheel drive (yes mine is set up to do that).  High range, low range, the noise was there but even less obvious than earlier.  As I walked away with jeep in idle I heard several clunks from the front drive line, sounded similar to the noise a locking hub makes when it engages, but  a little louder.

Now, here is what I found today:
I pulled the shift tower off - fluid levels are at spec level. I saw no broken teeth, or obvious damage but I'm no transmission guru.  I was able to spin the main shaft and I did hear a noise similar to the one heard on the trail, when the large gear on the main shaft, 1st I'm guessing, just barley contacted the large gear on the counter shaft.  Now the teeth on both of these gears do not have right angel corners, they are beveled, should they be?  Or should they be non beveled?

Second observation:  When I pulled the front propeller shaft I found that I can rotate the yoke on the front diff about 90 degrees before I feel resistance from the drive line, I don't think there should be that much play, thoughts?

Tranny comes down tomorrow, its all disconnected.  I'm concerned that I have a problem in the front diff as the rear diff does not have that much play in it.

Keep em turning,
Todd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 12:18am
Pull the front differential cover off and take a look inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 12:29am
   We had that happen to a Friend out here at the Oregon Spring fling one year. It ended up being a little chunk of metal that got down in the root of the main drive gear (the one in front on top) and was pressed in the root so hard that we could not knock it out. We put him on a trailer and took him home and I believe he took the tranny out and had it repaired but I really cant remember the out come. It happen when we were going down a several mile down grade too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mriceflinter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 12:41am
Gunslinger, There is at least something wrong in the front end. Possibly with the spider gears in the differential. I don't think it has anything to do with the nocking on the trail because then the sound was there when the tranny was either in gear or in neutral. Hopefully the tranny is ok after all. On the trail I suggested it might be in the clutch assy. If you end up pulling the tranny, take a close look at the clutch. You may not find anything there but it is worth a check anyway.  Good luck   Mike  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 1:22am
My experience has been that clutches make noise when you step on the pedal to disengage them and let the disc slip between the pressure plate and flywheel, or the throwout bearings make noise.

My guess is The fact that it makes the same noise in neutral, 1st, or 2nd narrows it down to the mainshaft (input shaft) as Mike in Oregon stated.

We should know soon enough.

I originally thought the shifter forks could have bent, but getting the same noise noise in forward or reverse suggests that not it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 4:19pm
OK, I tried posting photos, didn't work, anybody got a suggestion...I don't have a site like photo bucket, do I need one?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 5:12pm
Big thanks to Rick for posting photos for me. 
Here is what I found, first off there was yellow metal in the drain pan when I drained the tranny, and Trans case.  It was chips, not the small stuff you get from a GL5 oil, and yes I am using GL 1.

Additionally there were some small round steel/ bright metal chips, I could not see any broken teeth but they might be on the Intermediate shaft, there is some wear on the front gear, it looks a bit goofy.  And the very rear gear teeth look worn on both the top and bottom shaft.  You guys probably have a better sense if that is normal or not, tell me what you think.

Also on the Blocking ring you can see that flat spot, I guess some folks do that to make assembly easier, I first thought that was the problem but a build told me that some folks just grind that part off.  Stern Smile

There are some other worn parts in there as well, it really doesn't look bad, but it seems that there is some thing going on, tell me what you see.

I have not pulled the pressure plate off the flywheel yet, but in looking at the clutch assembly it seems to be in good shape, at least no parts fell out and the throw out bearing seemed in good shape.  I probably replace that anyway when it all goes back together.

Last thing, I took the cover off the front diff this morning as well, there appears to nothing out of place and when I turn the yoke all the parts inside the diff move correctly with no slop.  However the axle lags a bit when the hubs are engaged.  I'll be up early again tomorrow, and take those guys down and see what going on, I did turn one hub from 2x4 to 4x4 and there was a noticeable lag before I heard the engagement.. 

The learning continues...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Gunslinger Gunslinger wrote:

OK, I tried posting photos, didn't work, anybody got a suggestion...I don't have a site like photo bucket, do I need one?

Have you been through the "How to" on this site? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RICKG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 6:15pm
Gunny's pics.. looks like we have a smoking gun pic#3..


Edited by RICKG - 02 Oct. 2018 at 6:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 7:15pm
Well Ma'am, there's your problem right there!  Wow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 8:04pm
So is that one of the 88 little needle bearings that go in the cluster gear assembly?  I just assembled a T90 on Sunday.  It would be very difficult for one of those little needle bearings to escape from inside of the cluster gear.  If it fell out during assembly there probably would also be a small round spacer washer in the bottom of the case.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 8:31pm
Yer gonna be missin' a tooth or two
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

So is that one of the 88 little needle bearings that go in the cluster gear assembly?  I just assembled a T90 on Sunday.  It would be very difficult for one of those little needle bearings to escape from inside of the cluster gear.  If it fell out during assembly there probably would also be a small round spacer washer in the bottom of the case.


 
No, those aren't needle bearings, they look more like the brass teeth of the syncho or the brass keys on the synchronizer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 11:24pm
I just checked those little pieces, they are round, and they are magnetic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct. 2018 at 11:44pm
Whoa the needle bearing gremlins have just "crapped in yo messkit". At least you found the shell casing from the smokin gun!

Belleview ol skool winch soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct. 2018 at 1:14am
You gotsta pull the tranny apart, no two ways about it.  Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct. 2018 at 1:34am
When you take apart the transmission remember to drive the shafts out on the rear (transfer side) of the transmission - they are tapered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct. 2018 at 1:36am
Yeah. It sure looks like that stuff fell in during assembly and has been floating around ever since. Guess you hit a bump at just the right speed to dislodge it and feed it into the gears and grind it up.

Might just mean a small parts kit.
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