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What to do with this T90?

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ndnchf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What to do with this T90?
    Posted: 19 July 2018 at 2:12am
Last year I picked up a spare T90 and D18 pretty cheap. This week I decided to tear down the T90 with the idea of rebuilding it and later the D18, then swapping them into my CJ2A over the winter. It's not a critical project. The Trans and TC in the jeep work ok (although it does pop out of 2nd occasionally), but it does leak a bit.

So I tore down the spare T90 this week. I was a bit disappointed to find moisture had found its way inside. There was corrosion to the mainshaft, 2nd gear, 1st/reverse slider gear and other small bits. Also the reverse idler gear and 1st/reverse slider each have a broken tooth. It has the long v6 input shaft, I need the shorter 4 cyl version.The front bearing retainer is missing. Surprisingly, the cluster gear is in good shape, as is the case.

I had planned to buy a Novak master rebuild kit, but now it also needs quite a few other, expensive parts. So I have a couple possible options:

1. Spend the money for all new parts needed and rebuild. But since the Trans currently in the jeep is in better shape, I'm reluctant to spend a pile of money on this one.

2. Look for decent used parts + the master rebuild kit and rebuild. I could place a T90 parts wanted ad on the forum.

3. Use it as a training tool. I've never rebuilt one of these, so I could practice assembling it using all the original parts. This would help me gain proficiency while either looking for another T90 to rebuild and swap in. Or to just remove what's in the jeep now and rebuild.

4. Make a planter out of it and grow petunias ;-)

I'm leaning towards making it a practice tool or looking for affordable used parts plus the master rebuild kit. 

What do you guys think?


1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bufordjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2018 at 3:35am
Spend the $$ on the Novak rebuild kit, any new parts needed and have at it.  Rebuilding a trans & TC was last year's winter project for a '46, along with complete brakes on a 3b.  Very entertaining...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2018 at 3:44am
Look for affordable T-90C parts.  You already can't use it because it's got that long input shaft, so you need an input shaft anyway.  Make it a T-90C and try it out.  If you don't like the C, sell it.  
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2018 at 4:51am
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

Look for affordable T-90C parts.  You already can't use it because it's got that long input shaft, so you need an input shaft anyway.  Make it a T-90C and try it out.  If you don't like the C, sell it.  
 
I agree with Ol'Unreliable . .  especially if you have any plans to off-road it,  even mildly.    And you seem to be a master at finding things.  Smile
 
Stinks that the water got it. . .  I was fearful, but hoping for the best.  As you know the V6 was a victim also. Ouch    What did the guy say that sold it  -> " only sat outside uncovered for a couple days"?  Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2018 at 5:25am
anything worth doing is...

You picked it up cheap.  Buy the parts it needs, USA and NOS, and do it.  You’ll get the experience, and end up with a known quantity.  

You’ll be miles ahead, imo.  You could wait a long time waiting on the “perfect” donor, and waste that time on practicing.

.02
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2018 at 1:07pm
Ron - you are right about the water.  I should have said that I knew it had water in it, but was disappointed to find that much corrosion.  I thought about the T90C conversion, but in reality most of my driving is on the street, with just a little light trail riding.  I'm quite happy with the stock ratios for now.  If I rebuild this one and swap it in, and then later get more serious about off road use, I could build the original trans into a T90C and swap it again.  

Your comment about being able to find things might be right, I just like to snoop around and ask questions Wink  I have a line on another D18 and T90 with an overdrive that I may be able to get.  Not sure of the details yet, but will find out more.  The OD would be a real nice update.  

This T90 had a hard life and was then neglected. If I can get the right parts without breaking the bank, I'd like to rebuild it.  I haven't even peeked inside the D18 that was with it.  But I'm not so optimistic about it now.   
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2018 at 12:34am
Is the maindrive gear in good shape ?
If it's in good shape along with the T90 A cluster gear... then those parts alone are valuable to any wanting a T90 behind a Dauntless.




Edited by oldtime - 20 July 2018 at 2:41am
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2018 at 1:43am
The long input shaft and 18t gear are good. It has a 33t cluster which is goodtoo, but I'll reuse that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willys Distributors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2018 at 12:58am
I would rebuild it.

It sounds like you have time on your side and NOS parts are abundant.

Watch all of Rick Stivers YouTube videos if you have not done it already. 

Kurt 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug. 2018 at 2:18pm
   Ha ! _ _ _ _ are the Parts NOS or AfterMarket !

   I have to chime in on this:
The other day I was on an Olds / Buick interest Page, and there was a guy trying to sell some engine parts for the Olds 455 engine.
   One guy chimed-in and said "good-luck" selling he parts.

   Another guy chimed in to remind us that while we are "restoring" a mid-60's muscle car, today most parts we purchase are all After-Market parts. The O.E.M. parts are very difficult to find.
   Ha, and speaking of water in the transmissions, I recently purchased a 455 Olds marine engine for the set of "C" heads.   In the Craigslist ad, the seller mentioned the engine sat in the rain for a 'season.'
   Upon removing the heads, the engine sat in the rain for so many years that there were a few intake valve stems that are rusted so bad that the valves must be replaced ( with aftermarket ).

   Do any of you guys know of a good method to free-up stuck Pistons ?
I had a thought of putting dry-ice in the underside of the piston to shrink it enough that penetrating oil could work it's way into the corroded area between the piston and cylinder-wall to free-up the stuck pistons to be able to push them out of the cylinders.   I have 3-pistons stuck in cylinders from water.
Boat engines can also be victims of bent rods from hydro-locking if the engine diesels, and runs backwards with thru-the-transom exhaust. bad news.

    thanks guys !

     Len
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug. 2018 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by Greaser007 Greaser007 wrote:

   Ha ! _ _ _ _ are the Parts NOS or AfterMarket !

   I have to chime in on this:
The other day I was on an Olds / Buick interest Page, and there was a guy trying to sell some engine parts for the Olds 455 engine.
   One guy chimed-in and said "good-luck" selling he parts.

   Another guy chimed in to remind us that while we are "restoring" a mid-60's muscle car, today most parts we purchase are all After-Market parts. The O.E.M. parts are very difficult to find.
   Ha, and speaking of water in the transmissions, I recently purchased a 455 Olds marine engine for the set of "C" heads.   In the Craigslist ad, the seller mentioned the engine sat in the rain for a 'season.'
   Upon removing the heads, the engine sat in the rain for so many years that there were a few intake valve stems that are rusted so bad that the valves must be replaced ( with aftermarket ).

   Do any of you guys know of a good method to free-up stuck Pistons ?
I had a thought of putting dry-ice in the underside of the piston to shrink it enough that penetrating oil could work it's way into the corroded area between the piston and cylinder-wall to free-up the stuck pistons to be able to push them out of the cylinders.   I have 3-pistons stuck in cylinders from water.
Boat engines can also be victims of bent rods from hydro-locking if the engine diesels, and runs backwards with thru-the-transom exhaust. bad news.

    thanks guys !

     Len


Well if you don't care a lot about the pistons and are going to bore it out, flip the engine over and remove the rods from the crank.  Flip the engine back over and use a block of wood smaller than the bore diameter and beat the @#@$@# out of the wood block with a BFH. LOL   Now this method you will probably need new pistons, rings, and probably wrist pins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 7:52pm
Reviving my original thread from back in July. If you recall, I took apart this T90 and found it needed a lot. I hadn't done anything further until today. I decided to reassemble it with the original parts as a practice drill to learn how to do it.

I read through Novak's guide and Rick Stivers video. I had previously made all the special jigs spacers for assembling the needle bearings in the cluster gear. So with a tablet at my side, I had the Stivers videos to follow.

It took me two attempts to assemble all the needles properly in the cluster. The jigs worked perfect, operator error caused the rework. Then I went to work on the rest of it following his assembly videos #1 through #5. They are really good. The only minor thing is there were a few times in the video where the camera is pointing inside the case, but there is poor lighting and I couldn't see what he was doing. But I figured it out and got it together. I learned a lot and will be better prepared for when I build one for real.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov. 2018 at 10:35pm
looks good. Love the reloader bolted next to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov. 2018 at 7:32pm

Well, the only part I hadn't touched yet was the top. So today I took apart this mouse trap. It had a little rust inside from water intrusion, but not too bad. It took me a little while to figure out how to remove the shift rails, but that is part of the learning curve! I didn't see any reason to remove the cane.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov. 2018 at 8:45pm
If you want to go a bit further with this I would be interested to know if the cane and ball are firmly attached to each other and how they are secured. My shifter has a loose cane relative to the ball allowing the cane to twist slightly so the square end does not align with the slot in the rails properly. This causes the cane  to partly engage both rails when shifting form first to second resulting in a lot of gear clashing as the rails try to shift into second and reverse at the same time. I searched but never found any useful information on this.

DonH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov. 2018 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by DonH DonH wrote:

If you want to go a bit further with this I would be interested to know if the cane and ball are firmly attached to each other and how they are secured. My shifter has a loose cane relative to the ball allowing the cane to twist slightly so the square end does not align with the slot in the rails properly. This causes the cane  to partly engage both rails when shifting form first to second resulting in a lot of gear clashing as the rails try to shift into second and reverse at the same time. I searched but never found any useful information on this.

DonH

Short answer - I don't know, I didn't remove the cane. 

But moving the cane around, the ball moves with the cane with no noticable slop. In other words, the ball seems firmly anchored to the cane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov. 2018 at 11:54pm
Ok, curiosity got the better of me. I removed the cane from the tower to see how it all works. I'll tell you, getting that spring out of the tower was a bear. 

The ball on the cane is retained by a pin. There is another pin the goes into the side of the tower even with the ball. It engages a slot in the ball to keep the cane aligned. All pretty simple now that I see it. The ball slot on mine is a little buggered up. It might be ok as is, but it could be easily welded up and reshaped too. Here are a few pics.






XXX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov. 2018 at 2:56am
Thanks so much for the photos, exactly what I needed to see to repair my shifter. I got so frustrated with it this summer I bought an Omix replacement which shifts perfectly and ended my worries about having gear or synchro problems. The cane on the new unit is bent at an angle that almost smashes the hand into the dash when shifting into second. Also the diameter of the cane is not tapered towards the knob so it looks kind of strange, and in the words of car magazine revues, doesn't fall readily to hand. Thanks again.

DonH 
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